That's a Wrap

The 2007 season is moving forward without the Toronto Blue Jays. I’m looking forward to watching the Rockies attempt to complete the late-season push toward the playoffs tonight in the sudden-death tilt with the Padres. Given that this year will include a 163rd contest, I’m going to hold off on my year-end award picks until tomorrow.

For now, I’ll take a look back at Toronto’s season and dish out this season’s BA’s — the Bastian Awards.

BLUE JAYS

PLAYER OF THE YEAR: Alex Rios

You could make quite a case for second baseman Aaron Hill, but Rios enjoyed a breakout season with the Jays this year. The right fielder hit .297 with 24 homers, 43 doubles and 85 RBIs. Rios might’ve driven in more had he not spent so much time in the leadoff spot early in the year. Now, Toronto manager John Gibbons will wrestle with whether or not Rios or Vernon Wells should be the club’s No. 3 hitter in 2008.

PITCHER OF THE YEAR: Roy Halladay

Once upon a time, Babe Ruth swatted more homers on his own than some teams had as a whole. Well, nowadays, Halladay is logging more complete games as an individual than many teams have combined. Halladay’s Major League-leading seven complete games were more than 26 clubs had as a whole, and three teams didn’t notch a singled CG this season. Even after missing three weeks with an appendectomy, Halladay was near the league lead in innings and he was within striking distance of 20 wins.

ROOKIE OF THE YEAR: Jesse Litsch

Apologies to Adam Lind (11 homers in 89 games) and Brian Wolfe (2.98 EA in 38 games). The 22-year-old Litsch made the jump from Double-A to Toronto’s rotation and he made it look easy at times. Relying on control and a nice changeup, Litsch finished 7-9 with a 3.81 ERA in 20 starts. Litsch had some of the worst run support on the staff, though, so he could’ve easily been a 10-game winner in his first tour of the bigs. Now, Litsch appears to be the leading candidate for Toronto’s fifth spot next year.

RELIEVER OF THE YEAR: Jeremy Accardo

Apologies to left-hander Scott Downs (2.17 ERA in 81 games) and right-hander Casey Janssen (2.35 ERA in 70 games). Accardo was on the bubble in Spring Training and he eventually became a solid replacement for injured closer B.J. Ryan. Accardo notched 30 saves and finished with a 2.14 ERA. Using a nasty splitter, Accardo locked down the ninth inning in Ryan’s absence, and the young righty will likely slip into the setup job when the Jays’ closer returns from the disabled list next year.

BIGGEST SURPRISE: Shaun Marcum

Apologies to Dustin McGowan and Matt Stairs. After posting a 6.06 ERA in 13 relief outings, who would’ve predicted that Marcum would emerge as one of Toronto’s top starters after being moved to the rotation this year? Marcum joined the starting staff and went 11-4 with a 3.91 ERA the rest of the way. McGowan (12-10) likely projects to be the Jays’ No. 3 starter for next season, but Marcum was a true blessing to the pitching staff this year. Those two, combined with Litsch, Halladay and A.J. Burnett give Toronto an intimidating rotation for 2008.

BIGGEST DISAPPOINTMENT: Vernon Wells

The Blue Jays expected more from their center fielder after he enjoyed a huge offensive year in 2006 and subesequently penned his name on a seven-year extension worth $126 million. In ’07, though, Wells hit .245 with 16 homers and 80 RBIs before being shut down with a left shoulder injury. If the Jays have any prayer of seeing their offense return to its 2006 form, the club needs a strong return from Wells, who was signed to be one of the focal points of the lineup.

PLAY OF THE YEAR: Aaron Hill steals home on May 29

Apologies to at least a dozen defensive gems turned in by shortstop John McDonald. On May 29, Hill bolted from third base against the Yankees and successfully recorded a straight steal on New York left-hander Andy Pettitte in a 3-2 Jays win. Prior to the game, third-base coach Brian Butterfield told Hill and the Jays that such a situation might arise against Pettitte. It’s little details like that that might have helped convince Toronto to promote Butterfield to the bench coach job next year.

On to other matters…

Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi — booed by the Rogers Centre faithful during the season finale — sat down with the press on Sunday night to discuss the state of the club.

Here are a few goals he indicated the club has for the offseason:

  • Explore potential long-term deals for Rios and Hill
  • Look to acquire a veteran backup catcher with a good arm
  • Look to acquire a super utility man, possibly via trade
  • Maybe add some pitching depth through "reclamation projects"
  • Explore whether or not to stick with LF Reed Johnson
  • Attempt to re-sign veteran Matt Stairs
  • Hire a hitting coach to replace Mickey Brantley
  • Work within a payroll of roughly $90 million

Here are some goals Ricciardi said the Blue Jays have for next season:

  • Show improvement with patience and situational hitting on offense
  • Utilize Wells’ and Rios’ speed more often

Ricciardi said that Adam Lind would likely be more of a "regular" player in 2009, which means he could be back at Triple-A to start next season. Toronto’s GM also added that catcher Curtis Thigpen would probably be back in Triple-A with C Robinzon Diaz, who is "really close" to making it to the bigs.

It doesn’t appear that INF Russ Adams has convinced the Jays that he can be their primary utility man. Ricciardi also said that he told right-hander Brandon League that, "’If you want to be on this team next year you have to make this team.’" Minor League pitcher Brett Cecil is one prospect who Ricciardi said is "on the fast track."

Janssen will be stretched out over the winter, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll be converted to a starter. Toronto did the same thing with Janssen last year, just in case he’d emerge as a potential rotation guy. When League and Ryan went down, Janssen moved to the bullpen. It will likely be a similar scenario this coming spring. If Ryan isn’t ready by Opening Day, Janssen will more than likely be a reliever.

Welp, that’s it from me today. I have to gear up for my trip to Cleveland tomorrow. I’ll be blogging throughout the playoffs, so stay tuned. Anyone out there pulling for the Rox tonight?

61 Comments

definitly pulling for the Rox, and Canada’s own Jeff Francis.

Keep up the great work Jordan.

Also would it be too much trouble to include links to your playoff articles in future blogs? Just so we don’t have to search high and low for them.

Thanks for all of your hard work Jordan in the booth as well as on this blog, I have enjoyed your insight and enjoyed the banter that takes place on this site. Keep up the good work and I look forward to reading about the playoffs and rumors taking place over the offseason.

I think if the Jays can put it together the way they should next year, look out Bo Sox and Yanks. I am hoping that the Yanks bow out early. Tonights Rox game should be fun!

Comments On Riccardi’s Comments

Explore potential long-term deals for Rios and Hill***I hope we sign them both to 5 year deals, although I don’t expect this to be low cost.

Look to acquire a veteran backup catcher with a good arm ***I think Robinson Diaz would likely have made it this fall if he hadn’t got injured. He’s thrown out .444 of the guys trying to steal on him, hit .338 in AAA, and in 365 total at bats this year only struck out 22 times. What else he has to learn would best be learnt here with major league coaching. He can be Ernie’s special project. Forget about a has been we’ll dump in June-bring the kid up and play him now.

In my view, Diaz is ahead of Thigpen, in talent and upside-time to bring him up. He needs to be moved in early in this coming year so Zaun can be let go at the end of the year-or sooner. Another full year at AAA for Thigpen will help him a lot and have him ready in 2009 to share the catching duties with Diaz.

Look to acquire a super utility man, possibly via trade**We probably already have the super utility guy in Johnny Mac, sign a short stop with sting if anything is done at this position and forget about these retreads like Luna and Inglett. Olmedo is good defensively, but a light bat. Might be good to put a call into the Mets. After Friday night’s fiasco, there might be a short stop there they want to unload.

Maybe add some pitching depth through “reclamation projects” ** Total waste of time, we have losts of pitching depth-put the effort, time and money to better use elsewhere.

Explore whether or not to stick with LF Reed Johnson**I hope we keep him, but I think Reed needs to be realistic about salary, considering how poor 2007 has been. If we do trade him, trade him after it’s proven he has recovered so we get something out of him.

Attempt to re-sign veteran Matt Stairs**Only if the price is right-keep Lind otherwise.

Hire a hitting coach to replace Mickey Brantley.**The choice made here will be interesting. I hope we bring in someone strong, but I doubt Abner would will that.

Work within a payroll of roughly $90 million**I wonder if Uncle Teddy has put his foot down-more results-more money. I hope he has.

Sumner I think that is exactly what’s going on with Ted. The payroll has been increasing for 3 seasons now (i think) and the results have been the same.

I would look at trading Reed….as much as I like the guy, however if you can’t get anything decent for him then no point in my opinion (unless he can be used in a package)

Sumner, If you’re thinking that the jays should look into acquiring Reyes well I highly doubt they’d ask for little in return. So unless they’re willing to part with a lot then they aren’t getting him. I’d love to see him on the team though. He, or Wright.

Also, Jordan, thank you for all the blogging you’ve done this year. I for one enjoy reading them along with the work you do on the site. It was my first season signing up and i’ll definitaly continue to read your stuff and post a comment every once in a while.

If the Mets ever unloaded Reyes, they would be asking for a bunch in return. He is one of the most talented players in the game. He like everyone else had a TERRIBLE month of September. The Mets would be nuts if they dealt him, unless they got knocked out of there socks!!!

I do agree with everyone, Jordan you did a great job!!!

Michigan State almost pulled off the upset vs Wisconsin.

I couldn’t believe the score. What a whacky day in college football. All the top teams went down. Oklahoma goind down was the biggest surprise, Colorado is a bad team. The Sooners were caught looking ahead. Texas getting smoked at home was a surprise, the score anyway!!!

I think everyone is rooting for the Rockies. The sad part though it is still a football town for sure. Broncos rule the area!!!

Reyes would certainly look good as our lead off hitter, though, wouldn’t he. 78 stolen bases, plays good defence and a career .284 BA.

Maybe we need to take an undesireable from the Mets to get him-like Delgado, who they’re ancious to dump.

So tell me what you think of this deal.

We trade Overbay, Marcum, Tallet and Frasor.

We get Reyes and Delgado in return.

They get desperately needed pitching and a quality 1st baseman in Overbay.

We get speed at the top of the lineup, which we desperately need. Delgado is expensive and likely on the downside of his career, but he can still hit and play defence as well as Overbay and likely drive in more runs.

Turn Janssen into a starter, to take Marcum’s slot. Romero or Chacin can fill Tallet’s spot. Frasor is likely excess baggage in 2008 anyway.

Comments?

That was one heck of a game tonight between the Rox and Friars. And, yeah, bosox, I lived in Colorado for two years and the Broncos definitely rule the sports scene out there. Although, the Rox always had a decent showing when I’d hit up Coors Field every once in a while.

gsumner,

I think if you listen close, you can here the Mets laughing on your trade proposal. Reyes is one of the best players in the game, you need to give up alot to get him. Not going to happen!!!

Yeah, ah, the starting point for Reyes would be 2 of McGowan, Marcum, Accardo, Janssen.

Tallet and Frasor are useless, you can find guys like them anywhere, without having to trade for them.

Are you doing the same thing you did with Crawford? just trying to get people to post in response to non-sensical trade proposals?

Bosox

One never knows until the phone call is made. He’s good but he certainly isn’t one of the best in the game.

And The Mets look like they really want to shake this team up-so who knows.

Robert

Well, to get Reves, I think I might part with Marcum and Accardo.

We need speed at the top of the lineup, have an over abundance of relieve pitching so maybe it’s time to do a deal like this.

Hey, I didn’t see anyone here begging you to post, so don’t feel obligated.

lol

Reyes is a top 10 player in the game. The kid is a game changer for sure. His trade value is sky high. He had a terrible month but so didn’t everyone else associated with the Mets. That team went into the tank and EVERYONE should be held accoountable!!!

- Explore potential long-term deals for Rios and Hill
The sooner the better, these are players that will take us to the playoffs

– Look to acquire a veteran backup catcher with a good arm

I think we need a starting catcher with a good arm, but this position will be weak until we develop our own.

– Look to acquire a super utility man, possibly via trade

nice thought, not a priority though, id look within the organization first

– Maybe add some pitching depth through “reclamation projects”

probably a waste of time, but depth never hurts incase of injuries Litsch would be a nice guy to have as backup in AAA till we needed him

-Explore whether or not to stick with LF Reed Johnson

Think about a platoon with Lind and Johnson to start, untill one steals the job. Have a feeling Lind could do that. Plus we need another strong left handed bat in the lineup.

– Attempt to re-sign veteran Matt Stairs

Could be the Left handed bat, But seriously he is a career .267 hitter, what are his chances at age 40 to repeat this year? Don’t overpay!!

– Hire a hitting coach to replace Mickey Brantley

Obviously

– Work within a payroll of roughly $90 million

Good Luck!

Here are some goals Ricciardi said the Blue Jays have for next season:

– Show improvement with patience and situational hitting on offense

That will come around as soon as Vernon Wells comes around

– Utilize Wells’ and Rios’ speed more often

Rios should be stealing 20+ bases easily!! Gibbons needs to use his assets hopefully Butterfeild helps him out!

And all the talk about getting Reyes dont count on it! Unless Roy Halladays name is on the offer sheet the Mets wouldnt even consider it.

“We trade Overbay, Marcum, Tallet and Frasor.

We get Reyes and Delgado in return”

I hope you werent serious? Cause to me thats hilarious

NO WAY the Mets even think about it. Reyes has the potential to be one of the best shortstops to ever play the game. What could Overbay and Marcum ever do to replace that? Not to mention Tallet and Frasor, who have struggled just to stay in the big leauges!?

If JP does anything but some minor tweaking this off-season, I’ll eat my hat, socks, and underpants. He seems pretty set with this team and he’ll either sink or swim with them….

And how about this for a trade: Russ Adams, Joe Inglet, and Joe Kennedy for Reyes?

How could the Mets resist?!

And what’s this I’ve been hearing about a blown call to end the Rockies/Padres game? Anyone see the game? What exactly happened?

Bottom of 13, someone hit a sac fly and Holliday taged from 3rd. When he slid home the catcher dropped the ball and he was called safe.

Problem is that he never actually touched the plate because the catcher had it blocked.

Although, based on a strict interpretation of the rules (which isn’t used by umps and hasn’t been for as long as I can remember) the runner should be safe becasue the catcher isn’t allowed to block the plate if he doesn’t have the ball or is fieding the ball (about to catch it).

correction, it’s not if he’s “about to field it” it’s if he has to be in the baseline to catch it.

RobertLee: Thanks for the info! Sounds like it’s one of those grey area calls that people will dispute for a long time. And I bet there are some pretty bitter Padres fans out there today!

For reclamation pitchers, i hope Freddy Garcia is avaiable on the cheap, he would be a crazy good find if he came cheap and only needed a season to recover.

I sure hope we don’t sign Stairs for anything big. We should have traded him when there was a chance to.

Reyes a Jay ??? Sounds a little far fetched. Renteria would be a much better choice and would come a lot cheaper then one of the best SS in the game. Johnson is my leadoff choice !!!

And if you really don’t like Johnson, im sure you would just have to spice the deal up a bit with Renteria to get the Braves to send Diaz over to take over left.

Reyes would just be redundant. You always have to give up an elite player to get an elite player. Anyways, Im sure it would take at least McGowan and another top guy like Accardo to get the Mets to budge.

Freddy Garcia’s an interesting idea. But considering his past success (in both the slamming A.L. and the small balling N.L.) and that he’s coming off only one sub-par season, someone’s still going to pay him a whole bunch of money. I doubt the Jays could pick him up for a small Ohka-esque reclamation salary.

But we can dream, can’t we?

And while reading one of the “unofficial” Jays’ blogs, I came across a link to this article:

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/sportscolumns/entries/2007/10/01/glavine_is_not.html

Basically the guy’s saying that the Braves shouldn’t try resigning Tom Glavine, but should instead look into young pitchers like Joe Blanton, Nate Robertson, or SHAUN MARCUM. So maybe a deal could be worked out involving Marcum and Renteria?

I dunno — I’m not into giving up pitching for position players, but the Jays are in desperate need for both **** and a leadoff guy (especially if Johnson never regains his ’06 form). Maybe it’d be worth a shot?

(And apologies to the unofficial blog who I’m pretty much ripping off word for word)

Send Burnett Johnson Frasor Tallet to the Mets for Reyes done deal.

Garry:

Sorry to disagree, buddy, but I’m thinking the Mets will want a lot more than two guys who weren’t healthy all year and two bullpen guys who will likely be struggling to stay in the Majors next year for an All-Star….

I personally like the Renteria idea a lot, If they ask for any of the starters i’d give up one of Litsch, Chacin, and Burnett (in that order) i’d even consider dealing Marcum. It would probably take more then that but those are the guys i’d be willing to part with for a player like him.
Someone mentioned Halladay for Reyes as a starting point……i’ll keep Halladay in that case. It’s probably harder to find a ligitimate ace at his price then it is to find a Reyes.

Anyone else know if sportsnet will carry the show Season ’08 jays next year ? I have really enjoyed the ’07 edition this season and hope it continues next year.

Garry/Hem

Acutally I think Garry is likely right-the Mets would jump at Burnett and I’d rather trade him than Marcum-who I think has higher value, because he’s cheaper and has a better health history. Marcum could easily have won 16 games this year if he’d had run support, and I expect he’ll win that many next year.

I’m not all that sold on Rentira-he’ll turn 33 next year, his sb numbers are down-only 11, so I’m not sure he’ll provide the speed we want. He’s also **** expensive at 10 mill per year.

Bosox

Actually I like Hanley Ramirez better than Reyes, but I think it’d be easier to deal with The Mets than it would be with the Marlins.

Although, both need pitching which we have lots of.

Bosox-a question for ya

Who, in your team’s management doesn’t like the name “Pena”.

I mean last year you dump Carlos Pena and this year he wacks 46 hr’s and knocks in 131 for the Rays.

This year you dump Willy Mo Pena and he goes on to have a fine season with the Nats.

I guess yur guys just like the sound of Drew better, Huh?

LOL

gsumner:

I don’t think anyone here is arguing that they’d rather see the Jays have Renteria over Reyes or Ramirez, but considering what the Jays have to offer (without blowing up the team entirely), Renteria is a much more realistic option.

And it is just my opinion, but I really don’t think Burnett is nearly enough to land shortstops as talented as Ramirez or Reyes. Those guys are premier players, whereas Burnett has great stuff but still hasn’t proved he can last an entire season without hurting himself. If the Jays offered Burnett, Marcum, and some good prospects, MAYBE the Mets or the Marlins would pay attention…..

Renteria isn’t perfect, but he’d definitely be an upgrade at a position the Jays haven’t been able to fill since the days of Tony Fernandez….

The biggest reason Burnett isn’t enough is because some dumb@$$ GM gave him an opt out clause.

Also, the Marlins wouldn’t want AJ back, remember how he trashed their coaches/management and was subsequently kicked off the team a week before the end of the ’04 season.

I agree Renteria is much more getable (I just invented that word).

But he’s only got 1 year left on his deal, so I don’t know how much I’d give up to get him.

I think you guys are under valuing starting pitching. This year Florida was 28th in team era with 5.44 and the mets were 19th with an era of 4.66. Both are desperate for pitching-particulary proven low cost starters like Marcum.

In either case Marcum or Burnett would have been their ace.

My take is the mets would covet Burnett more, while the Marlins would jump at Marcum. Both team have tried to trade for pitching without success, and likely realize they have to give up something precious in order to get it.

On the other hand, it likely doesn’t matter any way because the Jays don’t have the balls to do a deal like this one.

Also, what’s the rush to trade away our pitching?

Doc, AJ, McGowan, Marcum, Litsch would be one of the best rotations in baseball.

Ryan (once he’s back) Accardo, Janssen, Wolfe, League, Downs, + 1 of Tallet Frasor Kennedy Romero, would also be one of if not the best bullpen.

I know the offence was bad, but it’s not going to be that bad next year. There were problems with clutch hitting and not using what speed but almost every player had a down year (they’re bound to be closer to their career norms next year)we do have but the last thing I’d want is for JP to panic and trade pitching for offence only to have AJ get hurt and BJ to be slow coming back and all of a sudden you’ve got no pitching.

We’ve seen a team with a great offence and little pitching, the 200*5* Blue Jays.

Really what we haven’t seen is the opposite, dominant pitching with an average offence.

Oh wait, I have seen teams like that. The ’07 Indians and Angels, the 06 Tigers, the playoff edition of the 06 Cardinals. Not bad, and if we keep it intact our pitching staff next year could be better than all of those teams.

If I’m JP, I don’t trade any pitching unless I’m getting a bigtime player whose under contract for 3-4 years.

Also if JP is fighting for his job, and I think we all hope he is, then he’s much more likely to keep the dominant pitching and hope the offence returns to form.

Robert

I agree with you, we will likley have the best pitching in the AL and possibly all of baseball next year.

But it would be nice to get a lead off hitter with exceptional base stealing skills like Reyes.

That would likely assure us of winning the pennant-who knows maybe Johnson can come back.

gsumner, you’re right.

The Jays don’t have the balls to trade surplus pitching for offence that they might not need.

btw, ask any expert (GM’s, coaches, writers ect.) and they’ll tell you:

THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS TOO MUCH PITCHING!

I obviously disagree, pitching wins championships.
Ask the Mets, they didn’t have any.

It’d be nice to have a guy like Reyes, but piching is more valuable.

Yes that’s why the Mets might consider a package starting with McGowan & Accardo, but it’s also why we shouldn’t do it.

well, it’s all about timing, I’m not sure I’d do any trade on pitching until both Ryan and League’s positions are known. But if they’d come back early and healthy, it would be something to look at because I think Janssen could be turned into a quality starter.

Also we still have guys coming up-potentially late next year-and we could lose Burnett at the end of the year.

I wouldn’t trade McGowan, but I would trade Burnett or Marcum under the right circumstances.

On the other hand, maybe both teams will try to sign Towers. lol

We have great pitchen and defence plus great offence???? Whats wrong with this team,Look beyond the team—-MAYBE ABNER—.

Garry

Hey I’d trade abner for a sand lot manager out of the junior high school teams in Arkansa, and send them money to boot.

Gerry

we could hire bosox to manage.

lol

Player of the year: Hill
Steadiest bat behind Rios and gold glove fielding at second. He should be their number 2 hitter next year. I realize he struggled in that role this year in limited action but once he gets used to it he will be excellent.

Pitcher: Haladay

For obviouse reasons 9 COMPLETE GAMES!

Rookie: Litch

Should be a lock for the 5th spot next year barring a stud pickup this offseason.

Reliever: Downs

Rubber arm! Ridiculous ERA especially considering the amount of games he appeared in. I just hope he isn’t burnt out and feeling the after effect from all that work carrying into next year.

Surprise: McGowan/Accardo

I thought McGowan was a bust until this year when he finally put it together and really bailed the staff out this year once Ohka and Thompson proved to be a waste of time. Accardo goes from nearly the odd man out to stud closer! If Ryan returns next year to his previous form this bullpen will be the best in baseball.

Disapointment: WELLS

He ****** all year… I just hope he starts playing up to his contract which starts in 08 I believe. He was the reason why the offence couldn’t get going… well that and the injuries but without your supposed best hitter and in the three hole hitting like a 7th or 8th guy your entire offence suffers. He still is one of the premier fielders in the game but a 126 million dollar fielder comes with a 300avg 30+ hrs and 100+ rbi!!!

Play: Hill’s steal of home.

Extremely exciting and agaist the Yankees!!! Nough said!!!

There won’t be one single trade this offseason for the Jays… Well you could move Glaus and sign Chipper… I wouldn’t mind that. Reallity is the current lineup will be esentially untouched going into next year… Why sell pitching for offence when you have guys like Lind, Diaz and Snider all projected studs coming up soon or being here next year such as Lind. They have their team they just need to stay healthy and have career years next year. That’s not too much to ask is it?????

I agree garry.

if they don’t get off to a fast start JP’s got to fire him.

Only problem is he should be fired now.

The only reason Abner is still there is his friendship with JP but you can bet that they are both on a short leash.
Jhonny Mac may come back next year with a better bat Johnson will come back strong but will BJ it already looks like they are rushing him by their talk,He has to throw at at least 96-97-will his arm hold up don’t bet on it.

Actually matty, we don’t need them to have career years, just normal years. You’re right about Lind and Diaz, Snider is a couple years off. But they have already sort of announced Lind starts in AAA, and Jp is on the lookout for a burnt out old catcher with a good arm-so it doesn’t appear he has any intention of bringing Diaz up.

By the way we have an older catcher called Sal Fasano, who the pitchers loved to throw to, but he got sent down because Abner liked Phillips better-what a dumb move that was.

Diaz is the best candidate for the two hole ,cause he is a contact hitter who rarely strikes out and hits for high average.

And by the way, Diaz threw out .444% of the base runners

Garry

Ryan never did throw at that speedhe was around 93-95. What makes him good is the deceptive delivery and movement on his fastball.

Can someone tell me why everyone believes that the Jays’ pitching problems are now resolved? If this team has proven anything over JP’s tenure, it is that it oscillates between good and bad hitting/pitching on almost a year-by-year basis. Quite frankly, I would not be surprised to see the pitchers have off years (as the batters did this year). Pitchers can have career years too!

You’re right Burt, and I am prepared for Marcum to struggle next year, but Halladay didn’t have a career year, Burnett wasn’t healthy, and I think the consensus on McGowan is that he’s finally “flipped the switch” and should only get better.

Gennerally speaking the difference is that the pitchers on the Jays who had career years are so young that we don’t know what a “normal” year is for them yet, but as young players they *should* continue to improve.

The hitters who had big years in 06 (Johnson, Zaun, Overbay, Wells, Glaus, Thomas w/ Oakland) are older players who you could look at their stats and say that they played above their career averages.

burt

what you say is true, but I don’t think any of our pitchers had career years. I think a few of the young guns had break out type of years, but Id expect Marcum, McGowan, Janssen, Wolfe and Accardo to improve from this year.

I also expect we might wee the first season ever that Burnett doesnt have an injury.

I think the only hitter that had a “career year” in 2006 was Johnson.

Glaus and Thomas were about normal, and Wells ,Overbay and Zaun were slightly above average-but not by a big margin.

Burt, the other thing to remember is, this coming year, Marcum, McGowan and Litsch will all be starting game one, whereas this year they didn’t start until May and or June. So i’d expect to see more wins from all 3 of those guys in 2008.

I don’t want to jinx anything, but I really do believe we could have 4 and possibly 5 starters with 15-20 wins each next year, assuming they’re all healthy.

I don’t want to argue about it but here’s why I came to the conclusion I did.

We agree on Johnson, who in 06 hit right handed pitching like he never before had (he’s always killed lefties – thus the platoon).

Wells: accross the board his 2nd best year (after 2003), but not far at all off of that years production. He’s now had 2 great years, 3 mediocre years, and 1 horrible year (07). I’d say the average is somewhere inbetween the 2 good years and 3 decent years. Thus 03,06 are above average.

Overbay had a career high in hits, hr’s, rbi’s, avg, slug, and ops.

Zaun: in terms of his time here (his only years where he was a starter), posted a career high in HR’s and slug, and was close on avg, obp despite playing backup to Molina most of the year.

Glaus: had an up year, in my opinion, by virtue of the fact he played 153 games, something considering his injury history was surprising, and something that’ll probobly never happen again.

Thomas: was coming back after 2 injury riddled years, and had lots of at bats versus Sea (bad pitching in 06) Ana (good but not great pitching in 06) and Tex (bad pitching in 06). Though I think he’ll be somewher aroung 30HR’s and 100 rbi next year.

JP was happy with 500 ball this year 500 ball is a long way from the playoffs no matter how you cut it.

garry

we need to win 92-95 games

Robert

Hey, I don’t mind debating with anyone.

I guess we agree to disagree on Wells on the mediocre years, because any time a hitter knocks in 20+ HR’s and 100 RBI’s or close to it, it’s not a mediocre year.

Overbay was slightly higher in ba, hr’s, rbi’s,, but lower in doubles and OBP.

Glaus’s Ba in 2006 was .252. His career average is .254 and his high is .284. Take out the two years in Arizona when he was injured, and all the rest of the years he put up similar or better numbers than he did for us in 2006.

Thomas had a reasonable year last year like he did this year, and I’d expect next year is better than this one, with Ba, slugging and OBP getting closer to his career average.

Who would be a good reclamation project ??? I get the point about Garcia; whatta bout Kris Benson ??? That would be sick, he’s a great pitcher who just needs some time to heal.

I think believing Burnett will have a healthy year should wake up, the guys body is messed up, it can’t withstand a full season, just like Rich Harden, it just wont happen.

I really hope Glaus gets some value back so we can trade him. Watching his slumps are sooo painful. Also the benefit of him actually having a good season.

Does anyone think that Accardo kinda models himself after Brandon Webb ? their deliveries and style seems pretty similar.

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