A case for Doc

TORONTO — Let’s try something here. Everyone is pretty much assuming — myself included — that Cleveland’s Cliff Lee has the American League Cy Young Award wrapped up. Roy Halladay undoubtedly deserves to be in the discussion, though.

So, let’s remove their records, because we all know wins and losses aren’t always indicative of how well a pitcher has performed (we all should know that by now, anyway), and take a look at their respective seasons in the ol’ Player A and Player B format.

PLAYER A:

2.32 ERA, 194 1/3 innings, 177 H, 50 ER, 27 BB, 149 K, 78 Quality Start percentage, 5.52 K/BB, 6.90 K/9, 14.7 pitches per inning, 266 grounders, 1.05 WHIP, .244 opponents’ batting average, four complete games, two shutouts

PLAYER B:

2.69 ERA, 211 innings, 186 H, 63 ER, 34 BB, 178 K, 68 Quality Start percentage, 5.24 K/BB, 7.59 K/9, 14.5 pitches per inning, 321 grounders, 1.04 WHIP, .235 opponents’ batting average, eight complete games, two shutouts

So, who’s your pick? It’s pretty close, isn’t it? Well, Player A is Lee, who has a 20-2 record with 5.97 runs of support per start. Player B is Halladay, who is 17-9 going into tonight with 4.73 runs of support per start. Maybe Lee shouldn’t be a shoo-in…

Just saying.

Today’s lineups:

TAMPA BAY (85-53) at TORONTO (73-66)
at 7:07 p.m. ET at the Rogers Centre

RAYS
Akinori Iwamura, 2B
B.J. Upton, CF
Carlos Pena, 1B
Cliff Floyd, DH
Willy Aybar, 3B
Eric Hinske, LF
Dioner Navarro, C
Gabe Gross, RF
Jason Bartlett, SS

PITCHING: RHP Andy Sonnanstine (13-6, 2.69)

BLUE JAYS
Joe Inglett, 2B
John McDonald, SS
Alex Rios, RF
Vernon Wells, CF
Adam Lind, DH
Rod Barajas, C
Lyle Overbay, 1B
Scott Rolen, 3B
Travis Snider, LF

PITCHING: RHP Roy Halladay (17-9, 2.69)

40 Comments

I agree Halliday should be considered in the CY Young race, particulary if he finishes strong. One of the things that helped Sabathia last year was his number of complete games over Beckett. It is similar now to Lee and Halliday.

Clearly Lee has had a tremendous year, but Halliday isn’t far back and if Lee stumbles home and Halliday finishes strong, it could be really close.

Halliday.I’m with you on that,It would be great for Doc. the team and the fans.The award has come to Toronto 4 or 5 times which is a lot for a team that has only been in the Majors for about 36 years.I’m pulling for Doc.

I think Doc has a good chance.

As insignificant as wins are, Halladay needs at least 19 wins to even be looked at for the Cy.
Sidenote: John Macdonald is batting second, Scott Rolen is batting eighth. No disrespect to him, but I can think of 8 other people who could bat second more effectively than Johnnymac.

Cliff Lee is the slam dunk winner for Cy Young. That being said if I had too start a team tomm. Halladay would be the first pitcher I would take. Lee has won 20 games for a team that is under .500

M.V.P. could be Dustin Pedroia’s to lose. Quentin being out the rest of the season will hurt his cause for sure. Manager of the year, Joe Maddon and that isn’t even worth a discussion.

Go Jays!!! Go Jays!!! Go Jays!!

Hot.
As much as I like J.Mac your right but who in that lineup can outrun him and he gets a double and winds up scoring a run [go figure].

Bosox Jordan said Doc. was worth a look.Pedroia is for sure the MVP this kid is wicked. Let’s trade who do you want for him.

What is with BJ he is going to cost Halliday a win if he keeps pitchen like that.

Garry,

Halladay is worth a look for sure. He is a horse out there but Lee has had a dream season.

I want too see Pedroia in a Red Sox uniform as long as he can still play. I am guessing that will be for the next several years. Pedroia should win the gold glove at second.

B.J. Ryan made it look a little interesting but he got the job done. Go Jays!!

Thank god he came through but he sure gets a person on the edge of his seat.

Halladay halladay halladay finally I got it right.

Jordan,

Bears lose Bears lose.

Colts 23
Bears 13

Any chance former Jay Gabe Gross ( former q.b. at Auburn ) will be the Bears starter by week 7? lol.

Bosox
Well, Halliday did help himself tonight. It’s all about how they each finish. If lee loses his next 3 and Halliday wins, it’s a whole new ballgame.

Hey, did you like the help we gave you tonight?

Garry
Hey BJ justs likes to keep it interesting. lol

Blue.Your right he makes you sweat but he did get the job done.lol.

Right now, I don’t think there is any question that it would be Lee because of W-L and ERA. I thought maybe Halladay was way ahead of Lee in Innings Pitched, which I consider to be extremely important, but looking at the stats Jordan provided, they’re even pretty close there.

I really hope I’m wrong though. Hey, you never know. Halladay is the bigger name I would think and the Jays have had a better year than Cleveland. Maybe that counts for something when it comes to this type of voting.

For Halladay to get a chance, I think Lee would have to lose pretty much all of his starts and get dinged pretty good to raise his ERA. I have a feeling that his manager will try to protect his Cy Young year by really watching that he doesn’t get into a position in a game where he gives up too many earned runs.

Too bad though because I think Halladay really is the better pitcher.

I think you have to consider Morneau for MVP . His numbers are far too good to not consider him . I would have said Quentin but now he is out Morneau looks good

Kate.Your input on the cy young.What do you think of Snider or Bosox for that matter.lol.The next time I talk to you I will use Indigo.I like the name Kate you should find a way to use it.

Enigma,
I agree with you , better to bring a minor league player up a year late than a year too early . It can kill their confidence if they aren’t ready . Yanks- Hughes and Kennedy are great examples

Garry ,
You may call me Kate . I would like Doc to take the Cy every year but I know thats delusional. I agree with Jordan , Lee and Doc’s numbers are not far off and should they come down to 1 win separating them, it should be interesting. Last year Beckett had 1 more win than CC yet Beckett never won the Cy. Lee pitches for a team under .500 so those who vote may look at that and feel Lee did more for his team. Its a crap shoot but I will root for Doc .

Kate what do you think of Snider,do you think the Jays should leave him in AAA ball for another season and go after Manny or someone with his type of numbers as the DH.
I say give him another season in AAA ball.

I have read a few articles on Snider and hopefully will see him play before the end of the month . He is a very mature 20 . I am impressed with how calm he is at the plate . I don’t think he plays left field as well as some others but it may be just a question of getting use to the ball park .

Jays won’t be able to pay Manny what he wants . He is a Boras client so he will want big bucks and more years than he is worth . I say stay clear of Manny……lol…. I hate the thought of putting Snider into the DH role as he is only 20

Morrow has a no hitter through 6 for Seattle….
.3-0 Mariners against Yanks…….go Mariners

Night all and take care

Bosox
Pedroia is a nice player-but he’s not the MVP; I think his power numbers are too weak.

Indigo
What I’d like to see the Jays do, is have all 4 outfielders share the dh role. Just keep rotatin a different one a day through the postion, keeping all 4 fresh, but in the lineupe each day. I think it gives us more flexibility than a dedicated dh.

Might also be able to include 1B in that DH rotation. Depending on how Lind and/or Snider work out there.

Of course, the Jays also have some other 1B choices – Barajas, Bautista, Scutaro, Thigpen and Wilkerson have played 1B this year.

Steve

Stevew.Would you like to see the Jays go after a good DH or take a chance on Snider.Maybe Snider needs another year in the minors.Not many 20 year olds perform well in the big leagues.Than again Snider may be one of the rare ones.If he can handel it I like Bluejayswins idea of rotating all four outfielders at the DH spot.I don’t think Thigpen or Wilkerson or maybe Bautista will be here next year.Having said that Bautista may fool us all and play well for Toronto.I would like to see more of him this year to see what he can do so far he has done okay.I have allways liked Wilkerson I guess it’s because he used to play for the Expos.

You can definately make a case for Halladay being the Cy Young this year, but he probably won’t get it. Here are the reasons.

1. Cliff Lee is a great story. He came into the year as Cleveland’s 5th starter.

2. The sexy pick for Cy Young is always a guy with a low ERA and a 20 or more win season. Lee’s ERA is lower as it stands right now. It is a shame because the amount that Doc has pitched this year, and the way he has pitched (i.e. completing games, 3rd in strikeouts, with little run support) that will probably be overlooked.

I hope Lee breaks down in September and his ERA climbs above Doc’s. As it stands right now, you can make a great case for Halladay, but he probably won’t get it.

welikeroy.I’m with you on that.Roy will win another one I’m sure.Lee would have to lose the rest of his games and Halladay would have to win the rest of his starts stranger things have happend.No one knows which way the voting will go so we can only hope.

It looks like Cito is rotating the outfield and Dh today with Snider playing right, Rios in Center, Lind in left and Vernon DH. I don’t think Snider has ever played RF and will need some time out there, but I sure like the flexibility. I really think that’s the best thing to do versus signing a designated DH. Does anyone remember the last time we had a designated DH that actually worked out?

I think Halliday still has as a shot, but a limited one. He probably has 4-5 starts left, so he could end up with 22 or 23 wins. He needs some help from Lee, but it’s not impossible.

Marcum has his work cut out for him today.GO JAYS.

Garry:

Snider started the year in A. I can’t help but think that being in AAA next year would be good for him. However, he has looked very good at the plate so far. No boo-boos that I’ve noticed in the OF. (Unlike Lind who made a couple of brutal plays one week, but has seemed OK lately.) My main concern is that I want him to play every day next year not sit on the bench.

I think Bautista will be with the Jays next year (not certain of his contract status). I think he was picked up in case Rolen is still struggling (at least I would have been looking for a 3B). Although Scutaro is good at 3B, the Jays may need his bat over Johnny Mac at SS. I’m good with Inglett at 2B, if Hill doesn’t come back.

Steve

Bluejayswin:

I think Snider’s natural outfield position is actually RF. LF is the new one to him, so he should be more comfortable today.

Hem
His natural position might have been rf in high school, but as long as he’s been withthe Jays it’s LF or DH. YOu can confirm that by checking his stats in ML.

bluejayswin:
I just checked it out at Baseball-Reference.com, and it seems like he’s played more games in RF except for AAA. These are the numbers:

Lansing: 110g at RF, 5g at DH
New Hampshire: 39DH, 38RF, 22LF
Syracuse: 13LF, 4RF, 1DH
Totals for those 3 years: 152RF, 45DH, 35LF

Check it out: http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=31661

you’re right it looks like he’s played both. I just went with the stats listed here:
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Travis%20Snider&pos=&sid=t552&t=p_pbp&pid=501983

Don’t sweat it! We all make mistakes.

I think they’re pushing LF on him because he’s blocked in right by Alex Rios. There’s a better chance that Lind can move to DH or 1B than Rios going anywhere else.

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