Game 156: Seattle at Toronto

Today’s lineups:

Thumbnail image for mariners.gifSEATTLE MARINERS (80-75)
Third place AL West, 10.5 GB

1. Ichiro Suzuki, RF
2. Franklin Gutierrez, CF
3. Jose Lopez, 1B
4. Mike Sweeney, DH
5. Adrian Beltre, 3B
6. Bill Hall, LF
7. Kenji Johjima, C
8. Matt Tuiasosopo, 2B
9. Josh Wilson, SS

Starter: LHP Ryan Rowland-Smith (4-3, 3.70)

Thumbnail image for BlueJays.jpgTORONTO BLUE JAYS (71-84)
Fourth place AL East, 28.0

1. Jose Bautista, RF
2. Aaron Hill, 2B
3. Edwin Encarnacion, 3B
4. Vernon Wells, CF
5. Randy Ruiz, DH
6. Kevin Millar, 1B
7. Rod Barajas, C
8. Travis Snider, LF
9. John McDonald, SS

Starter: LHP Brian Tallet (7-9, 5.39)

Don’t forget, you can follow me on Twitter: @MLBastian

~JB

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18 Comments

The season may be officially over for the Jays, but I am sure that the suffering is only likely to continue for Jays’ fans. Rather than fire then hire a proven general manager with savvy, I have a feeling that we will get sold yet another Canadian – Anthopolous – or whatever his name is. In my opinion it is time for a house cleaning (seems to be working wonders for the leafs having two Americans running the only show in town). First, I would like to see the best talent on the field and in the front office regardless of where that talent originates. Sorry Antho — you are no baseball man. Go to some other organization and prove yourself. We need a proven name in the front office. Second, let’s move DOC sooner than later. He needs to go, we need to get something substantial for him. Let’s make this a win-win for both him and us. Then, we need a commitment to youth. No more re-treads. Let’s do what the leafs are doing, put talent first. (Yes I know that they are running out knuckle heads, but that is only until they can load up on talent.) The Jays have some players in the minors. Let’s give them the chance to blossom. Let’s also stay away from “x year plans” regarding a winner. All we fans are asking for is direction and hope. Finally, I think that Cito must go. We need someone who has experience working with young kids and does not mind the trials and tribulations that come with playing kids. I would like to see Cito on a more established contending team. He deserves another shot with a team that is closer to competing.

Burt
i agree halladay must be traded this offseason. Ricardi should take the best offer at winter meatings for his ace. As for Cito as much as i dont want to say it needs to go. this teams new manager should be in it for the long haul not on the edge of retirement.

I think the jays should attempt to aquire carl crawford this offseason. Tampa needs to shed his salary and we need a outfielder and new lead off hitter. If we resigned scuturo his bat handling would be valuable in the two hole. maybe something like: Crawford for Purcey, Accardo, Emaus?

Crawford LF
Scuturo SS
Hill 2B
Lind DH
Wells Cf
Overbay 1B
Encarnacion 3B
Snider RF
Barajas(?), Chavez, Phillips, arencibia or whoever C

92bluejays-I agree on trading Halladay, the sooner the better. I also like Crawford. If nothing else, signing him would probably give us a better chance at beating TB, since he’s been the guy who beats us game after game. However, TB might need a 1st baseman, more than they need starting pitching, since they’re looking to deal starting pitching as well. So trading Overbay for Crawford, with an added bonus of Accardo might really work for both teams.

gsjays:
I usually agree with you but the Blue Jays are in dire need of a first baseman as well, and they already have Lyle Overbay! We do not need Carl Crawford or any other proven players. We need a commitment to develop talent to the point that we are competitive. Then, and only then, do we make moves for players like Crawford. Just think how far the Jays would have been ahead of other teams if they had paid the money out and signed some of their draft picks from this year that they let walk. I know that most do not work out, but it was hard to see that left handed pitcher (paxson) walk because we were not willing to meet Boras’ numbers. All we need to fix this thing is a commitment to youth and patience. We have done it before, we can do it again!

Burt
We have a power hitting first baseman if we ever call him up-Brian Dopirak, which makes Overbay expendable. In addition, the word is TB also want to trade Pena, so OVerbay might be a good fit for them.
I totally agree any increase in budget should all go to minor league development, BUT here’s the thing. If we trade Overbay, call up Dopirak and Arencibia, then we might be looking at a lineup of Hill, Lind, Dopirak, Ruiz, Encarnacion, Arencibia and Snider-all of whom can hit 25-30 home runs and drive in lots of runs. so although the minors still need to rejuvenated, fact is this lineup is extremely competitive and low cost. There’s not that much difference between Crawford’s cost and Overbay’s, and Crawford is young ( 28) and potentially can play center field when we dump Wells. In addition, I think Crawford brings an immense intangible to a young team and that’s leadership, the guy goes full bore all day long. He will also put bumps in seats at the Rogers Center.

To be frank, I wouldn’t trade for any veterans and as you know have been pushing for a rejuvenation of the minors for over a year, BUT Crawford is different and would be a huge difference in this soon to be team of young guys.

I wonder if we’re looking at this kid.

The Angels plan to take a look at Aroldis Chapman, the Cuban defector with the 100-mph fastball . . . if he is willing to face a hitter. Chapman was granted free agency Friday. The Angels will join the stampede to scout the 22-year-old left-hander, with the New York Yankees, New York Mets and Boston Red Sox among the clubs expected to rush in as well.

Los Angeles Times

Sorry gsjays, I didn’t make my point clearly. I love the idea of replacing Overbay at first with Dopriak, Ruiz, or even Lind. However, I do not think anyone in their right mind would trade for Overbay. To be honest, I think that Overbay is one of several players who should be released. Let’s eat his salary and move on. I don’t like giving up on young pitching, even for Crawford. If a fat slob like David Wells can have the type of career he had, there is no reason that Purcey cannot have an equally good career. If worst comes to worst, make the guy a closer. Tell him to go out and throw as hard as he can for an inning. This guy has great potential because he has the type of body that should allow him to pitch a high number of innings. It is a guy like League that you have to worry about — all arm and shoulder.

Burt-I didn’t say I’d trade trade Purcey, 92 blue jays did. I would trade Richmond, Wolfe, Murphy, May, Burres, Mills, Janssen or Accardo. I have liked Purcey for over two years and think he’ll be one of the starting 5 next year, so I wouldn’t trade him unless it was something really special being received back.

Just as I have no doubt whatsoever that Papelbon purposely threw at Lind, I also have no doubt, we’re partially to blame. Beckett beaned Scuataro, threw at Barajas twice and we did nothing. Last night Papelbon purposely threw at Lind and we did nothing.
We have to retaliate in order to protect our guys. Send a strong message, plunk Youk and Petrolia early in the game, and if Boston retaliate plunk someone else. Failure to do this will result in our guys looking like wimps and we will face this again all next year.

Thank you to Doc Halladay. Pitch perfect on Ortiz and really nice to see Lind’s big smile, knowing his team was looking out for him. Long overdue, I expect Boston will think twice about plunking our guys from now on.

What a game by the good Dr. and Ruiz who’s now hit 5 doubles and 9 home runs in 30 games. Imagine if he played everyday.

So, if 3 goals in hockey is a Hat Trick, can we call Lind’s 3 homers a “Bat Trick”?
Nice to see some payback from the Doc last night. Right on the elbow, too!

Bat trick-good one Yearouttaheah.

It is still a mystery why Cito hasn’t played Ruiz every day and it’s amazing that he’s been able to hit like he has with as little playing time. Clearly, Babe Ruiz is a keeper. Of course, Cito still doesn’t understand why our Babe has only 16 rbi’s when he’s hit 9 home runs (all in 104 at bats), which is also a mystery, cause everyone else knows it’s because of where he’s positioned in the lineup.

Of course Cito, not a man for stats, probably never bothered to take a look at da babe’s minor league record so he’s not aware one of the reasons da babe won the mvp award in the PCL is because he’s an excellent hitter with risp. Maybe Cito can be excused since that type of hitter is pretty rare on this team.
But for the record his risp numbers are .365/.425/.591 for a torrid ops of 1.017, and 7 of his hr’s and 15 of his doubles were produced in 159 at bats with runners in scoring position. Sound familiar? It should because that’s how da babe has hit throughout his minor league career.

Ruiz can just plain hit, righties-better than lefties by a nose and much better with risp.(someone should tell Cito that since Cito is still of an opinion he’s better against LH’s. ) The obvious decision then would be to have him in the lineup every day in a spot where he has a lot of runners on base and the opportunity to drive in runs. Frankly, the perfect spot for da babe is right after Lind, give Lind some deserved protection, probably better pitches to hit and hit the guys in Lind misses. Putting Hill, Lind and Ruiz back to back will bring terror to opposing pitchers.

Add Snider in the mix sooner than later and you have 4 hitters all capable of 35-40 hr’s per year back to back. Of course there’s still Dopirak, Encarnacion and Arrencibia all capable of 20-30 if someone at Blue Jays management has enough brains to move Overpaid out and bring up Arencibia and Dopirak. Christ, that lineup would terrorize even the Yanks, who haven’t had that power in the lineup since murder’s row back in the Babe-Lou Gehrig days.

The other question Cito seems to be struggling with is where to play da babe. To me it’s really simple. Play Lind in left, Snider in right, Bautista-playing for a new contract on the bench, and put Ruiz in the dh role. If Cito’s worried about Lind in left and Snider in right, get then to Dunedin a month early along with Butter and make them into great outfielders. Bring Ruiz right along with them.
Bring in Jessie Barfield as a consultant to help and work their butts off for a month until they get it.. Problem solved. He’s got the speed, and for sure what he’s demonstrated is he clearly has the desire. No one hangs in the minors for as long as he does without a burning desire to make it in the majors. Maybe our outfield isn’t gold glove capable, BUT with that lineup who cares, and I think even Cito would be pleasantly surprised by how good they get.

It’s worth the exercise, it’s not often a team can hire a dh who hits 30-40 hr’s potential and 100 rbi’s for major league minimum. Save the money on players salaries and dump it into signing bonuses for new draftees.

I like Ruiz a lot. However, I do not think Cito does. I hate to say this, but I doubt very much that Ruiz is in the Jays’ plans for next year – much like Dopriak and Arencebia.

Burt-I’m starting to think the same thing. But, there was a time JP and Gibbons didn’t want or like Lind either which changed when Cito became manager and now we have a budding superstar. Maybe a new President means a new Gm which means a new manager and they give these kids the same chance and enjoy similar results. That’s my hope, anyway.

So, what do we think about these reports concerning Cito? Does this force the organization’s hand to replace the manager, general manager, and president (which we know they are already going to do)?

One thing is very clear and that is a new President will be named shortly. When that happens, I cannot imagine the new President going forward with JP as the GM. JP has no credibility left and although some might debate how good of a job he’s done, even those who support him consider him nothing but a bare faced liar. There is no way to move forward with JP even is he is well thought of in the organization and I doubt if he is.
I think the last straw for him was the gross mismanagement of the potential Halladay trade which was turned into a media circus by JP himself. So I color JP gone.

On Cito, I assume you mean the Toronto Star article which was negative on Cito. I learnt long time ago there’s always 3 sides to every story, so at this point it’s hard to figure out what’s really going on. I am sure, though, Wells would love to lay blame for his disastrous season at someone else’s door. That being said, I don’t think it matters anyway, because I cannot imagine a new GM not changing the manager.

Given the disastrous report and subsequent batting coach firings at A, AA & AAA, I would expect whomever takes over will probably also bring in their preferred player development group and scouting. All in all maybe a total house cleaning, which given what’s there is a good thing, imo.
Funny how Godfrey gets out of this nice and clean, since he, along with JP have been the architects of this 8 year disaster. Let’s hope the changes happen quickly and thoroughly and we get a capable management group who know what they’re doing.

Burt-I should have checked to see who’s the source of the story before posting. It appears the sole source of this story comes from Ken Rosenthal who posted it on Fox sports website. The question everyone needs to ask themselves is why would Rosenthal be called by any Blue Jays player to leak this story, makes no sense.

Or at least it makes no sense until one remembers Rosenthal is also the same guy who leaked the Halladay trade rumors-he’s the one who started it and it took off from there.
It has always been my opinion that the guy who gave Rosenthal the Halladay trade rumor was JP Riccardi. I suspect it could be the same situation here. Riccardi, in my view, is trying to deflect some blame for his dismal record, the dismal minor league situation and the teams performance this year.
So who better to put on the block than Cito Gaston. JP knows Cito is close to Beeston and Cito was probably brought in to manage as a result of Beeston’s recommendation. Cito tells Beeston the truth-that the players we have are mostly marginal, Beeston takes it up with JP and JP knowing he’s gone decides to take a shot back at Cito. Probably what’s going on, imo.

I wonder two things, though, where is Beeston and why is he being so quiet about this situation. And where is our MLB writer-Bastian, its like he dropped off the edge of the earth.

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