Tweeaction to Halladay deal
As we close in on midnight here, it is sounding more and more like the Blue Jays will be receiving prized pitching prospect Kyle Drabek, stud outfield prospect Michael Taylor and catching prospect Travis d’Arnaud from the Phillies in exchance for Roy Halladay. With that in mind I posted this question on Twitter:
Here are some of the early reactions:
@jonah_n Still think it’s not enough; Aumont should be coming to Toronto.
@TOSportsFever it is what they wanted in the summer. A future ace and a potential star player in Taylor. Pretty good for a pending FA
@Raypold It’s a good package but if thats all we get i would be dissapointed. Hopefully Seattle adds some. Was really hoping for Brown
@MatthewKlekner good deal if it’s Drabek. Not as much if it’s JA Happ.
@Uforseen could use 1 or 2 more guys. Are any of those folks gonna play in majors next year? I’d like one person from the deal to cheer for
@Pagal4321 Seems like a rip-off to me. But then again, so would any deal. Love the Doc!
@drewkuntze I like the deal, D’Arnaud provides Arencibia with competition, Taylor a future cleanup hitter, Drakek a top of the rotation guy
@DarrylSalach not enough. The Jays will need the top 3 prospects from the Phillies and the top 3 prospects from the Mariners to make the deal.
@allllllllllllly it bores me
@AFJaysFan I like that AA is making some bold moves to try to make the Jays competitive in the East but I still hate to see Doc go
@mainevent360 Missing a Seattle prospect to T.O. otherwise there would be no need for this to be a three-way trade. Regardless I’m pleased.
@eric_epp I woulda been happy with that at the deadline. now? AA is a genious!
@hughgas better than Mike Sirotka
@steveconelley I’d rather get Saunders in there somewhere.
@talkinghomer I considered myself a HUGE Halladay fan. The deal had to be done though, and I’m glad they got they got 2 Top 50 prospects.
@OneToolPlayer Brutal. At least 1 of Brown or Saunders or I’m unhappy.
@sboulton Don’t know D’Arnaud well but, unless he’s a stud prospect, it’s not enough of a return for Doc
@aaroningram99 that list is better then any offer/rumour they got in July other than the rumored redsox deal Better then Indians Lee Deal
@ilanbaron good job AA , don’t think J.P could pull it off.
@CutlersBarber Pretty solid. Thank god JP didn’t trade him in July for the Happ, Donald, etc. poop platter.
@JaysFans15 No matter who we get back still can’t get over the fact the Doc is gone, seems childish and whiny. The truth hurts
–JB
Major League Bastian 
What’s not to like, we get 2 future potential all-stars with Taylor and Drabek and our good Dr. gets a deserving shot at a ring.
Taylor is a 5 tool outfielder with huge power potential, with speed and a high enough obp (.395) that he could be a lead off hitter. Imagine a 6’6″, 250 pound guy who stole 21 bases in 116 games.
Drabek could arguably be one of the top pitching prospects in baseball and both these kids could be in Toronto before the end of 2010. Both should be high impact players. D’Arnaud is a toss in, but could still develop. Considering the fall our rate on draft prospects, getting these two kids is like 10-12 draft picks, assuming you draft well.
An interview with Drabek: http://phillies.fandome.com/video/114321/An-Interview-With-The-Untradeable-Kyle-Drabek/
What isn’t being said yet, is how flexible Doc was in agreeing to a 3 year extension at $20 mill per year, proving once again what a class act he is. He could have just sat the year out and got 3-4 years at $25 per year-no doubt, or he could have pressed the Phillies for 4-5 years instead of 3 which would probably have risked the deal.
He deserves a shot at a ring, I really hope he gets it. I for one will be watching and cheering for the Phillies next year as well as teh Jays and really wish him well.
There is one additional point and that is about Travis D’Arnaud. Point is this 20 year old hit 13 home runs in 126 games in A+ ball so he might not be as much of a “throw in” as I thought earlier. At second glance, I lke this kid.
I am really liking this deal, well done Alex.
Folks, if we get this package, we should be very happy. Griffin is reporting a package that is strong on Canadian content, but weak on quality. There are non blue-chip prospects in his package. I am going to keep my fingers crossed, and hope that we get the package reported by Jordan. I have done a little research of my own on D’Arnaud. This kid has the POTENTIAL to match or exceed Arencebia. Again, we should be very happy with this deal, if it is true. Moreover, my hat is off to Antho but especially the Phillies for having the guts to pull off a trade of this magnitude and complexity. Let’s hope that Doc wins 20+, the Cy Young, and a WS ring.
My first major thought is that the package is less than the sensational offers we’ve heard rumours about all along. Keep in mind, none of those packages came to fruition so take them with a grain of salt.
I like this deal better than the rumored package of Aumont, D’arnaud, and Taylor. I consider Drabek to be further along in development and with a slightly higher ceiling. D’arnaud is said to be the 6-7th ranked prospect in the Phillies system. Not bad for the THIRD prospect included. While I would’ve preferred Dom Brown, Michael Taylor is a 23 year old with decent pop, a high average, and decent speed. I would make one change to the deal…have them include Blanton instead of us paying $6 million. I would rather pay his salary and have him on our staff as a veteran leader. Sure, he might get lit up a little at Rogers centre but he’s a bulldog who has pitched in the AL before. He led that rag tag A’s staff a couple years back.
Continued at Jays blog: Thoughts and Observations
-JK
Some rankings have Taylor ahead of Brown for players currently in the minors.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090731&content_id=6161780&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
They both look promising. We don’t really know which one will develop better? Brown is younger, and Baseball America chose him as the Top #1 prospect in the Phillies system last year, so there is something to be said for that. Taylor is definately more ‘big-league’ ready, as he has succeeded at 3 levels in the minors so far.
Drabek might take some more time, but who am I kidding? This is the team that called up Brett Cecil in early-May last year.
As for the deal, I definately like that we got two guys that can potentially make an impact. Taylor and Drabek are top guys in the minors right now. If d’Arnaud excels then Alex will get my praise, but I don’t see him any better than a long list of minor-league catchers. I’d have to say that this is about what I expected we’d get for Halladay at this point. If we would have waited till the deadline this season, we might have only gotten one of those guys. The rebuilding process begins again. Hopefully Vernon Wells will be gone by the time we finish. Too bad we had to give up 6MM in the deal! Halladay was the best! I can’t wait to see him ‘tear apart’ the NL! That said, I hope we meet him in a World Series ‘down the road.’ Down the LONG road. Don’t worry I’m not on drugs.
http://homerfoodandhistory.mlblogs.com/
welikeroy , If Jays trade Taylor for Wallace it just adds insult to the injury .
The Jays are now rumour to be swaping Michael Taylor to Oakland for 3B prospect Brett Wallace. Similar hitting prospects, but Wallace might not be adequate defensively at 3B I hear?
The trade rumours/activity so far is blowin my freakin mind!
The fact we are paying 6 mil of Doc’s contract and receiving 3 prospects doesn’t make AA shine in my eyes. Phillies are getting the best of this deal , they get Halladay , 2 prospects from Seattle and 6 million dollars …..Jays are getting screwed
If Jays are paying 6 mil for Doc to leave, then I would rather keep Doc and let him work with the Jays’ young pitchers and take the 2 draft picks .
welikeroy-If that’s the case there’s another trade coming for EE. Wallace is ready to play at the mlb level now and looks like a great 3rd base prospect.
Naked-Are you joking? We get two impact level prospects and possibly 3. Check out the prospects the Phillies are getting, it’s not about quantity its about quality.
Don’t you realize that less than 1 of 10 draftees become impact players at the mlb level. Keeping Doc for 2 draft choices, when we can get two prospects that could both be at the MLB in 2010 is insanity.
Or Wallace plays 1st base…..
I am far from joking . As you put it 1/10 of players make an impact in the majors so why would you think 3 prospects we get for Halladay are all going to be studs . I know its about quality but the fact we are getting 3 prospects and paying part of doc’s salary is a joke
I did checkout the prospects , Drabek has already had TJ surgery and that doesn’t always mean a good thing . They are prospects . The 2 potential prospects Seattle will be sending to Phillie are both high as well , a pitcher and an OF who is very speedy on the base path but they are just propects also . If this deal goes down like this , it is saying Lee is worth more than Doc and to me that is just wrong
No, what is a joke is your suggestion to keep Halladay for the two draft choices, when in fact the chances of actually drafting prospects like this is less than 1 in 10 and 4 years to find out.
Actually, what I sad about these kids is they all look like great prospects, never did call them all studs-but I do think they can be impact players at this level.
Frankly, I’m pleased Drabek has already had TJ surgery and recovered very nicely from it. To me that’s an advantage not an obstacle, Does Marcum, Ryan and Litsch ring a bell??????????
“If this deal goes down like this , it is saying Lee is worth more than Doc and to me that is just wrong.” For the life of me, I don’t understand your logic on this statement. Why does it matter to you what Seattle got, what should matter is we got 3 great prospects,.
Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t give you a reason to attack me . You are entitled to your opinion as am I .
welikeroy , It’s the money part that I object to , Halladay plus 6-7 mil ( 6.75 difference in Halladay and lee’s salary ) for 3 prospects just seems like the Jays are getting the short end here
Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I’m not attacking you, I’m simply trying to point out why I think your opinion is wrong.
Wallace is younger by a year, and being picked in the first round, he was a lot more highly touted then Taylor was. People knew Wallace could wrake from the time he was drafted, Taylor not so much. Making this deal, Jays scouting, Antho and the organization must be ‘incredibly sold’ on Wallace. There are setting themselves up for scrutiny if Taylor outplays Wallace, though. Both guys definately have intriguing offensive potential. They are beside each other on a lot prospect rankings. I worry about what we are going to do with Wallace positionally? I thought Lind might convert to 1B? Seems Overbay is going to be out? Also, seems like OF might be more of a positional need for us right now. Jays scouts might thrust 3B upon Wallace, even though scouts report that he struggles there?
The 6 million I didn’t like, because it is unfair. The Phillies will be devasting with Halladay, regardless of the money. I really don’t like that money included in the deal. As far as the players coming our way, they are much better than picks. Drabek and Taylor are far and away better than anyone we have in our system currently. These are Top 25 minor-league-prospects, and they don’t grow on trees. I think we got fair value for Halladay, at this point, except for the 6MM! You’d have a hard time convincing me that that HAD to be included in the deal.
For sure both Taylor and Wallace were both scouted. It could be Wallace moves to 1st base instead of 3rd. From the reports I saw, Wallace has what the scouts called a “bad body” which would put him at 1st instead of 3rd. It could also be that Taylor for Wallace is part of another block buster. I suspect we need to wait till that trade is announced to see all the pieces.
Of course, I can’t convince you on the 6 mill. because we haven’t had confirmation it is true, who pays who and why.
My screen name has to change. How bout welikewallace?
The 6 million to me is absolutely a non issue. Imagine if this trade was not made because AA wasn’t willing to pay 6 million? He would be a bigger laughing stock than JP was.
I think this deal is good, and fair, and it is more than I thought we’d get for him after JP screwed it all up previously.
I look forward to seeing the new guys come and play, hopefully they all pan out as well as we hope.
Right, gsjays, this deal has already changed about like 5 times over the course of 12 hours.
It might be that the Halladay wasn’t traded at all! It was just a ‘figure of the MLB’s imagination’ that got lost in the space-time continum? Just joking. I hope it goes. We made off with 2 top prospects for a guy that wasn’t staying here after 2010. Bottom line, regardless of the cash.
My thought process is that the the Phillies are getting Roy Halladay, and they didn’t need that 6Mil included. We are essentially having to sign one of these prospects to a 6 million-dollar-deal with this. If you go by that logic. I’m glad the deal is done too, and am happy with the result. The 6mil is just an annoyance to me.
I believe Keith Law mentioned that if the Jays get wallace they will look to move Overbay so it could be that Wallace gets a shot at first. Where does that leave Dopirak though ? Are they not confident in him ?
You guys obviously know these prospects better than I, so i’m wondering who’s more major league ready ? based on what i’ve heard either Taylor or Wallace can play as soon as 2010 and Drabek might have to wait until 2011 ?
welikeroywelikeroy, put the $6 mil in perspective. If Doc had walked, we would have 2 draft picks, which may have been pushed back to the 2nd or 3rd round, as it was for Burnett, and who would stand a 50-50 chance of even having a cup of coffee in the majors. Instead, we get Drabek and Taylor, 2 quality prospects near the top of the minors, that have the ability to impact the club in the next year or 2. Then they send $6 mil to Philly for Travis d’Arnaud, a first round draft pick with 3 years of minor league time behind him. That’s pretty much the signing bonus the Jays will pay their first round picks if they want to sign them next year. IMHO, that’s way better than letting Doc walk. Looks like our AA can deal a bit!
Drabek pitched 158 innings in 2009, so it looks to me like the Phillies stretched him out pretty well after his 2008 TJ surgery. 96.1 of those innings were in AA so I expect he’ll either start in AA with a quick promotion to AAA or start in AAA at the start of the season dependent on what the scouts tell Alex. He might be a September call up, but I do not really see him here full time until 2011.
Michael Taylor only played 30 games at AAA this season, so he would start there and probably be a mid year call up. Wallace played 108 games in AAA last year, so I think he could be ready to go, but that will also depend on the position he plays. If we turn him into a 1st base guy, I’d expect he starts in AAA till mid year, if he plays 3rd base, I think he go north from spring training.
Boys, there is no need for heated debate! Just one week ago, it did not look like we were going to get anything for Roy, except 2 draft picks once he left. Now we are enjoying ourselves talking about the pluses and minuses of various, highly-touted prospects. Let’s enjoy this while it lasts. Some of us have waited a long time to see this type of movement in the organization. Without seeming corney, we have a lot to be thankful for. None of this would have been possible if it were left up to the Sox or Yanks. We should post at the philly site, if we haven’t, and congratulate their organization on having the guts to pull off such a move. Antho also deserves credit for having the imagination and skill to pull off such a move. This is really a great day in Blue Jay land, so enjoy!!!
Burt-yep it’s like an early Xmas present.
This seems like the best offer, of all the “offers” AA had for Doc, It’s good he will get his chance to win the WS, but I wish he would have been able to do this as a blue jay, We can all thank JP for that.
andrew-draft picks cannot be traded in baseball,but I also think there’s more to come.
Like all deals there are some pros & cons…
Pro – B/c the Jays have the WORST RATED farm system in all of baseball, these 3 players instantly become the 3 top prospects in their system.
Con – $6MM will hurt.
Pro – The Jays got a much better set of prospects than the Phillies did.
Con – The Tigers got a much better set of prospects for Granderson than the Jays got for Halladay even though Halladay is a much better player than Granderson.
Pro – AA got what he said he was looking for SP, OF, C.
Con – AA should have been looking for ****.
Pro – AA got a much better deal than JP would have.
Con – The offer that T-Bay was rumoured to be dangling of Upton & Davis would be much nicer.
That’s it so far, but it seems like AA may have a few more tricks up his sleeve with the A’s and Pirates and possibly more. So, I’ll try and be less judge-mental until I see the whole plan. I still think that there is more to this deal. Possibly draft pick(s) and/or prospects from Seatle coming to Toronto.
By the way, the **** should read a shortstop. Apparently “the man” censored me b/c using a before the abbreviation for shortstop (SS) is too close to a swear word.
yurouttahere – I put Halladay on a pedistal unlike some you I guess? Two top prospects like Taylor and Drabek seems to be ‘fair value’ for him, in my mind. He is the best pitcher in the game! Getting anything for Halladay at this point is great, and I’m glad about that. AA deserves a lot of credit for coming up with this result, and simply playing the market. Recently, we’ve heard a lot of rumours with some very good prospect names being thrown about. Not liking that 6MM was involved is only a small knock on AA. The prospects involved in the deals are excellent!
Back to the 6mil. On the face of it, the Jays, who are considered a low-to-mid-market team, are giving up 6 mill to a high-market team that has reaped the finanical benefit of 2 World Series seasons the last two years? It doesn’t seem right to me. But, I guess it had to be done, and like I said, the resulting trade is a good one for the Jays.
If the 6MM was only thing holding up the deal, and we know that it was with Cliff Lee involved, then yes, I would definately still go through with it. I realize that you can’t put a price on MLB ready talent for draft picks, even though I never made that argument to begin with. I think it was someone else?
I’m really happy about Wallace because it is well known that this kid can wrake! He did it everywhere he played last season, but he spent the majority of the time in AAA with the Cardinals and A’s teams. Oakland aquiring Jake Fox a while ago probably tilted the deal, as Wallace was backed up by Fox in the organization. Good deal for both sides, Oakland didn’t need another 1B. The Jays, in my opinion, could use help at both CI spots. The A’s, with the addition of Fox, who I think can seriously hit in MLB (much like Ruiz after spending most his time in the minors) will be also getting Taylor to star in their outfield.
Scouting report on Wallace: A pure hitter from the left side, he has good plate discipline and the ability to hit for average and power. ?A good athlete stuck in a bad body? is the perfect phrase for him as he?s more athletic defensively than people anticipated. He showed he may be able to stick at third as long as he watches his conditioning.
Upside potential: An All-Star-caliber bat at third base, he?ll never win a Gold Glove, but he can stay at the hot corner and his bat will play in the big leagues soon.
***With Wallace, Lind and Snider, it looks to me like we could be set with 3 very strong left handed power hitters for years to come.
First post here this off-season, Gsjays, i like your optimism about snider lind and wallace, but as we’ve seen already with snider, the jump from minors to the majors is far from easy. I looked over Wallace’s numbers and apart from average (approx. .309 if i remember correct) none of his stats really wowed me. I realize he’s young, and the power numbers are hard to project, but if most scouts already say he can’t play third, whats so great about a 1st baseman that can’t hit for power? And the result is another Lyle Overbay, I pray I’m wrong, but I like this Michael Taylor alot more from what I can see, and I admit what I’ve seen is statistics.
First post here this off-season, Gsjays, i like your optimism about snider lind and wallace, but as we’ve seen already with snider, the jump from minors to the majors is far from easy. I looked over Wallace’s numbers and apart from average (approx. .309 if i remember correct) none of his stats really wowed me. I realize he’s young, and the power numbers are hard to project, but if most scouts already say he can’t play third, whats so great about a 1st baseman that can’t hit for power? And the result is another Lyle Overbay, I pray I’m wrong, but I like this Michael Taylor alot more from what I can see, and I admit what I’ve seen is statistics.
?A good athlete stuck in a bad body?…with power potential. Can we liken him to a Lance Berkman (except worse range defensively?) I realize Wallace may have more power potential, but I personally might have gone with Taylor. Based on position alone, we don’t need another poor fielding hitter, anywhere on the diamond. I would’ve rather had the athletic player with a little speed. Either of Lind/Snider could probably pick up 1B. If Double A really wanted an IF, he should have acquired a middle infielder (Truinfel from SEA?)…possibly instead of a catcher? I thought all along they were targeting either a young catcher already established (Napoli), or a star that was almost here (Montero). While I trust Double A’s judgement towards D’arnaud’s potential, I think acquiring a catcher who is even further along than Arencibia + Jeroloman (while prudent planning) might not have been the best plan for the immediate building future (1-3 years). Most Jays fans are on board with rebuilding (or “building”), but only with the thinking that this team could be competitive with all those building pieces within a couple of years and stay competitive. I wholeheartedly agree with his philosophy to restock the farm system…but we also don’t want to replay Ricciardi’s early years (or Billy Beane’s lifetime) by constantly trading for youngsters at every given moment. Otherwise, what’s the point of developing youngsters?
okgojays-That scouting report I posted came from MLB.com. From what I’ve seen on Wallace, he can play 3rd base, not as good as Rolen, but he can play 3rd base providing he keeps his conditioning up. I mean this guy has massive legs. Take another look at his numbers and remember he’s only played 192 games and 734 at bats of pro ball. In other words he’s been rushed to the majors and has hit for average and power at each stop-as a 22 year old. He has also been called the best overall hitting prospect of his draft year.
I expect he’ll need some adjustment time when he gets here just like every kid does, but I also expect he’ll be capable of hitting 25-35 hr’s per year in the not too distant future.
I liked Taylor as well and wish we could have gotten him along with Wallace. On the other hand, I’m sure there’s a good reason why Alex did this deal and I don’t think Alex is finished for the season either.
Don’t get Taylor for Wallace – Lind is suited for 1B, Taylor could have taken over in the field. Seems to create a logjam. We’ll see how it pans out.