Taking a Short Break

You guys probably noticed, since there was no pregame post here tonight, that I took the day off. I’m actually taking this three-game series vs. Seattle off to catch up on some sleep and to recover from the 23 straight days I just spent on the road. My trusty assistant, Gregor Chisholm, will be holding down the fort for MLB.com at the Rogers Centre.

It’s been a long and interesting trip that took me through Seattle, Oakland, San Francisco, Boston and New York. From a homeless woman in Seattle holding and kissing a live rabbit, running into Jeremy Accardo on the BART on the way to the Coliseum in Oakland, experiencing all the madness that was All-Star Week in San Francisco, losing my luggage but meeting some interesting people on a flight from the Bay to Boston, having a security guard kick a man who told me he killed two people out of a mall in Beantown, meeting up with my old college roomate in the Big Apple and seeing the view of the Manhattan from the top of the Met, to having a steam exlosion blow a 25-foot wide hole into a street just two blocks from my hotel in Midtown. After all that, and covering baseball, I’m ready for a nice, long nap.

I will be back at the computer and in the pressbox for the upcoming three-game set against the Twins. Then, it’s back on the road through Chicago, where I’ll get to meet up with some family, and then down to Tampa Bay to cover Toronto’s inactivity at the trade deadline. Until I’m back posting, keep the discussion alive in the comments.

One bit of news today was the Blue Jays released catcher Jason Phillips after Friday’s game. Toronto is going to recall catcher Curtis Thigpen, who will assume Phillips’ role as the backup catcher/first baseman. You can bet that Thigpen will see action behind the plate a few times a week. He’s proven he can hit in the bigs, and he might have a better chance at throwing out some runners. With the Jays rapidly falling out of the race, it makes sense that the club would prefer to give a younger player like Thigpen more playing time.

What do you guys think of the move?


  1. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Enjoy the timeoff Jordan,

    I like the move.

    Time to play for next year, as I said in my last post in the previous thread I expect Lind will be back soon too.

  2. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    Love the move, Phillips will never be able to help this team any more than he is doing (which isnt much) so bring up the kid and get him playing in his natural position. I hope this will lead to other moves which rid us of players who wont help us too much in the future. Which brings me to the conclusion (painfully) that we need to trade Stairs and get something for him. During that west coast NL trip, he was the only thing holding us together (big HR off of Saito in the 9th sticks out), but if we can get some young talent, send him to a contender. He deserves a chance at the ring he almost got last year with Detroit (albeit he wasnt on the playoff roster) who knows, maybe we can send off some dead weight with him (Towers, Clayton, Chacin when hes healthy)

  3. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    Also, what do you all think of Jack Wilson. He is expendable with Izturis, Sanchez, Bautista, and Castillo all in Pittsburgh. His defense is great and he can hit a little. His enormous contract might be the snag though.

  4. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    I wasn’t watching when Zaun threw out Ellison did Ellison fall down.I would like to see Thigpens arm I hope he has a good one,If the Jays have given up then trade Stairs and Chacin try to trade for Beddard and Betemit.

  5. robertlee13@rogers.com

    I wouldn’t want Wilson unless the Pirates ate some of his contract. (6.5mil next year 7.25 in 2009).

    I’d definitly prefer Wilson Betimit.

    He’s younger, better, much less expensive.

    Glaus, Stairs, and 1 of McGowan/Marcum/Janssen for Betimit and Billingsly.

    As you can probobly figure out I like Billingsly.

    With the money saved with Glaus’ contract gone you can bring in **** or 3B in free agency.

    However many games the loss of Glaus’ bat costs us would be made up by Billingsly.

    Imagine, Doc,Billingsly, Burnett,and 2 of McGowan/Marcum/Janssen.

    Well, I can dream.

  6. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    JP should try and swindle Coletti into giving us Betemit/Billingsly without us giving up Glaus. That would be the steal of the year if he could do it. (A nice Chacin, Stairs, Clayton, low level prospect (that means you Ricky Romero) package would be nice for us).

  7. robertlee13@rogers.com

    I know it’s hypocritical of me to say this given the pipe-dream scenario that was my last post but, Bedard isn’t going anywhere until Baltimore is certain he wants to leave. And even then they’ll probobly only trade him 1 year before he’s a free agent (he’s a FA after 2009)

  8. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Yeah khoenig08,

    Here’s an interesting question:

    Who’d you rather have Billingsly or Vernon Wells.

    A trade that I think could have happened in this past off-season.

    Even playing like he was last year (and I expect him to figure his problems out and play like that in future), I think I’d rather have Billingsly.

  9. torgen@gmail.com

    You can’t give up Glaus to get Betemit without knowing where you’re getting a third baseman from. (Or you could use Betemit as a 3B, but then you still need a shortstop.) If Ricciardi made that deal and the Jays ended up with John Hattig as their starting 3B next year you’d be calling for his head.

  10. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    Why would Baltimore trade one of there only two good pitchers when he is still young and they have one of the worst pitching staffs in the majors. You will see Trachsal go first anyway. And by the way, Bedard pitched against Oakland today. 7 IP, 1 hit (Ellis HR in 6th) 11 Ks. WOW. Also, going into this year I would have taken Wells, but after Rios started lighting it up, I could move him to CF. It looks like we need Wells’ bat more than Billingsly’s arm though. John Hattig yikes.

  11. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Torgen, You don’t give up Glaus for Betimit.

    You’re really trading,

    Stairs for Betimit and Glaus for Billingsly.

    Yes we’d still need either **** or 3B but as I said whatever offence we lose in Glaus we gain in pitching with Billingsly.


    The whole Bedard issue stems from Jamie Campbell saying in his sportsnet.ca blog, that a Baltimore team official told him that internally the Orioles believe Bedard will never sign an extension with them because he wants to leave via Free Agency to come “home” to Toronto. Bedard (as you may know) grew up just a couple of hours outside of Toronto, and has a reputation for not being a very happy person. Maybe part of his demeanor is that he’s misserable being away from home. Who knows.

  12. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    My final hope for this season is that we finish ahead of New York in the standings, as I take lots of junk being a jays fan in Rochester, NY (remember the ferry?). If that happens, who knows, Joe Torre might fall right into our lap. We need something else in that trade, we can do better than Stairs for freakin Wilson Betemit. I also like Glaus a lot, but he is getting to a point where he could berak down at any time. Shopping him a bit might not be a bad idea. By the way, would you do the Santos/Glaus for Hudson/Batista trade again. I probably would (we need someoneto play third other than Howie Clark), but with much more reservation than before, especially with how Batista has looked recently.

  13. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Yes, because we needed a 3B (koskie didn’t cut it) and Hill has become allmost as good as O-dawg.

    I haven’t checked the numbers but I think Batista is still very up and down.

  14. torgen@gmail.com

    We only traded Hudson because we thought Russ Adams would be a capable middle infielder. I doubt we had the needed pieces to make the trade for Beckett and Lowell that the Bosox made, though, and I don’t know what free agent third basemen were out there that offseason. I suspect the pickings were slim.

  15. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I doubt the Pirates would deal Sanchez, he won the batting title in the N.L. last year. What a TERRIBLE trade by Theo Epstein, giving up Sanchez for Suppan. Live and learn I guess. Bedard certainly would be a nice move by the Jays but who knows if that will ever happen. Time will tell of course.

    Trading Glaus make alot of sense by the Jays. Does he fit in there long term plan? Then again does J.P. even have a plan?

  16. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Sanchez looks like a 1 year wonder. 851 ops last year, 727 this year. Which is a lot close to the 736 he posted in 2005.

    Define long term? Everything I’ve read indicates that baseball people thought that this team would peak in 2008.

    If that’s true, it’d be almost impossible to replace Glaus’ production next year.

    As I’ve said this team has too many peices of a strong nucleus to be rebuilding.

    It’d be smarter to keep Glaus than trade him for less than he’s worth. For Glaus I’d want a young pitcher who’s a future #2 starter.

  17. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    I’ts nice to see we have a fan from New York it must be hard with the way the Yankees play most years,Maybe we can do the same in the future.I live out west in Sask.I don’t know to many Jay fans out here.

    Glaus can’t help us out in a trade for short if you do trade him for a shortstop how do you replace him at third,It’s like I said before how many players play through pain like he does.

    JP must know we need a shortstop the trade deadline is coming up,Gibbons has complained about the fact our catchers have no arms maybe JP heard him I sure hope so.

    I miss Hudson to he was not only good on the field but he was good in the clubhouse but the fact remains he’s gone.

  18. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I don’t know what the trade value of Glaus is but I doubt you will get young pitcher who is a #2 pitcher. Then again you might get a desperate g.m., someone who is dumber than J.P.

    Regarding Sanchez I don’t think anyone can say he is a 1 year wonder. Too early in his career to say.

    Towers is pitching today, when will the Jays realize he is not a legitmate starter? Nothing but a long reliever, I don’t see anything from him to prove otherwise.

  19. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    The Jays should have alot of youngsters play down the stretch. Let’s see what you have. Jays are going to finish with yet another losing season. The roster has to be tweeked not blownup. Look into dealing Glaus, you never know what you will get. It could only help not hurt. Some folks on here say no way, don’t deal Glaus. People don’t fall in love with your players, especially one’s that have alot of nagging injuries.

  20. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    One thing garrguy I will gurantee is that Glaus in 2008 will not play more than 145 games, GURANTEED. To me that speaks volumes of the type of player you have in Glaus. Glaus and Burnett must have the same trainer, in other words they don’t have one.

  21. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Perhaps, but he’s not nearly as good this year as he was last. It’s looking like he’s 730 guy not a 850 guy. 730 isn’t impresive.

    Towers is the Jays 7th starter. If Gus and AJ were healthy he wouldn’t be in the rotation.

    Besides look at the Red Sox. Julian Tavarez? As you’re 5th starter? He’s as bad as Towers, but he’s the Red Sox 5th starter. Towers is our 7th.

    Again, If we’re not improving our team, Why trade Glaus?

  22. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Do you really think you should be making coments about guy not having trainers.

    You realize your team employs Curt Shilling right?

    And neither Glaus or Burnett are poorly conditioned, AJ is soft, and Glaus has in-operable bone spurs in his ankle.

  23. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    bosox F-OFF we had a nice day on here yesterday you were nowhere to be found do not address me anymore and I will do the same,you have been on here today for four postings and nothing but insults creep,If you address me after this it means you are a lowlife have a nice day.

  24. robertlee13@rogers.com

    You say tweaked, but trading one of your core players (Glaus) isn’t tweaking.

    Getting a ligitimat SS, that’s tweaking.

    Getting a C who can throw people out, that’s tweaking.

    Trading your cleanup hitter, a guy who plays through pain whenever possible. Not tweaking.

    I want to see you say it “Trading Glaus for the sake of making a trade is a bad idea, he should only be traded in a deal that improves the team”.

  25. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    You can only trade Glaus if you get a great offer. He cant be shopped for less than hes worth, hes too valuable when healthy. Anyone know if any of the minor league pitchers are ready for a shot. I think Litsch would be better served at Syracuse, but can anyone take his place (probably not i think Taub. is next in line.) Whats up with Josh Banks will he ever help this team?

  26. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    You can’t even compare the Sox and Jays rotation. That is like apples and oragnes. I am sure most knowledgable people would agree.

    As I said look into trading Glaus, I don’t know why you think your going to get a #2 pitcher for him. There is no way you are going to. Don’t lock yourself into a guy that has nagging injuries. Free up some salary, payroll flexibility is a good thing, especially for a team like Toronto. Not a big market team. Obviously Sanchez is not as good as was last year, I think someone who doesn’t know much can see that. He did start the year banged up a bit and probably didn’t make proper adjustments as the year has gone along.

    How come your not open to the fact that the Jays should deal Glaus?

  27. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    This is the matchup of the century today: Towers v. Weaver. I hope its a slugfest we need that to startup the offense. Its probably our best chance to just destroy a pitcher.

  28. robertlee13@rogers.com

    NEW RULE!!

    Aside from rule #1: “Talk ball or shut-up”

    Rule #2 “nobody responds to anything bosoxbrian says”

    Games coming on CBC in 5 min, I’m getting some luch, be back soon.

  29. robertlee13@rogers.com

    khoenig08, no Josh Banks will probably never help this team.

    And no there’s no one else.

    If League re-establishes himself in the set-up role (or even if he doesn’t), I’d move Jassen to the rotation for the last month or so. Before his back injury last year he was looking like a future #3 starter.

  30. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I don’t know why some people on here think that trading Glaus is out of the question. He is not great people, he is ALWAYS hurt. You can’t count on him to play the hole season, what good is he? He has nagging injuries, always has always will. Why can’t some of you see that and on top of that making $$$$$$$ and not going to be able to play a hole season.

  31. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    Lets compare than,
    1. Beckett v. Doc

    2. Dice v. Mcgowan

    3. Wakefield v. Marcum

    4. Tavarez v. Litsch

    5. Gabbard v. Towers

    DL Schilling and Burnett (and Gus and Clement (ha))

    Neither are that great, they are pretty even until #5, so I like Bostons rotation a little better, but Torontos is younger and has more potential. Glaus can play a hole, but not a whole season.

  32. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    Glaus, however, is much better than any third baseman that we can find right now and probably for next year so I will take 130 games of Glaus next year over 162 of Clark or Hattig.

  33. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I think this is so funny that someone is comparing the Jays rotation to the Red Sox. WOW!!!! Come on now khoenig08. It is not even close and you should know that if you have any knowledge of the game. Tigers rotation is better than the Sox and not many after that.

    I am not saying that the Jays should turn to Clark or Hattig as the 3b in 08.

  34. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Towers should be out of this game by the 5th. Weaver as well, Imgaine this, the Jays might score 6 runs?

  35. robertlee13@rogers.com

    This line-up looks dumb.

    Why not just have Wells leading-off?

    And if Johnson is going to neen this many days off, why not bring Lind back up and cut Clayton loose.

  36. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Looks to me as if Gibbons is desperate here. He’ll be golfing quite a bit soon if the Jays continue to play lifeless. J.P. should be his caddy.

  37. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    Towers is looking pretty good so far. Maybe he has another level that he hasnt reached yet. What the **** are we doing with this lineup? Might as well lead off Clayton it worked the one time we did it anyway.

  38. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    I guess with weaver pitchen I guess any lineup should work as long as Thomas is not in the leadoff spot lol.

    gsumner where are you time to come back miss your baseball input.

    Jorden we miss your lineup card and input come back soon,Let me say it first Garry is a brown noserlol.

  39. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Will the real Josh Towers please stand up. 2 bad pitchers pitching as if they belong in the big leagues.

    I thought when this game started both teams would be scoring a bunch of runs.

  40. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    It is official the Jays bats have not cleared customs. Weaver has been TERRIBLE this year and he is making the Jays look like a bunch of minor leaguers.

  41. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    Clayton looks like the claton of old “NOTE” Claytons AVG is 1 point higher then Wells or Towers.BELIVE IT OR NOT.

  42. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I never thought I would read Towers and the word impressed in the same sentence. Usually it is not impressed.

  43. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    Gibbson makes the rightmove no matter what happens Towers pitched a great game but the Jays can’t hit????.

  44. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    Maybe we can get some trade value out of Towers. That would be a miracle. With the lack of pitching on the market maybe someone will desperatly make an offer.

  45. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    What is the market for a pitcher like Towers? I would say you might get a couple of used baseball’s and 3 broken bats in return. He is nothing but a long reliever at best, if you have him in your rotation your asking for big trouble. If you make enough starts your bound to have 1 good one, percentages.

  46. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    This is his second good one in three starts against two good hitting teams in Seattle and Cleveland, he might have turned it around a little.

  47. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    This is his second good one in three starts against two good hitting teams in Seattle and Cleveland, he might have turned it around a little.

  48. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Towers can’t get any worse. Cleveland is a good hitting team, I wouldn’t say Seattle is. Jays bats have disappeared. I thought that would be one of there strengths coming into the season.

  49. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    How can you say he cant get any worse? Last year was much worse than this year. Im glad you think that the Jays offense is underachieving like everyone else thinks.

  50. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I don’t know why I say he can’t get worse. Read the following, going into today’s start, 115 baserunners in almost 77 innings. That is terrible. The reason he doesn’t walk many is why walk when you can get a hit. Towers usually pitches from the stretch, he is nothing but a long reliever.

  51. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    You obviously werent around last year to witness his talent (or lack of) on the mound. He has improved since then (how couldnt he),

  52. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Nice shutout by the Jays. Towers pitched as if he belonged in the big leagues, perhaps he can keep it up. I doubt it just like everyone else.

    Jays have won 2 of there last 3, “WOW”.

  53. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I have been around to see Towers pitch. I love it when the Sox have to face him, I know the Sox will at least pound the baseball.

    I think in 2008 Towers should be the opening day starter, he is AWESOME!!!

  54. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I do agree with you on that one. Imagine we agree. In 2008 J.P. if he is the g.m. needs to get this team some help if not he will be all done!!!

  55. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    khoenig08,you are right Towers in 05/ was a gem now try not to get in a game of wits with you know who you are to smart for that he sent me a message on my e-mail he had no right to without my say so,you seem like a good person don’t lay in the gutter with him,

    The doc pitches tomorow could be a good game.

  56. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Halladay will be looking for his first win of the second half tomm. He will have to pitch a gem to get a win because this Jays offense has disappeared.

  57. gsumner@rogers.com

    Nice move by The Jays to bring Thigpen back up. I could never understand why they kept Phillips up here in the first place.

    I think this move happened, for two reasons, one to get Thigpen up here, and the other to get Robinson Diaz up to AAA; and get him around Sal Fasano-who’s a great teacher. In my view, Diaz is our long term catcher solution. Check out all the All star awards he’s won.

    07/11/2007 EAST AA Mid-Season All-Star

    07/08/2007 Futures Game Selection

    08/28/2006 FSL A+ Post-Season All-Star

    06/17/2006 FSL A+ Mid-Season All-Star

    09/05/2005 FSL A+ Post-Season All-Star

    06/18/2005 FSL A+ Mid-Season All-Star

    09/01/2004 SAL Post-Season All-Star

    The guy is 5′ 11″ and 220, 23 years old. At New Hampshire, he was hitting .316, 3 HR’s and 30 RBI’s in 74 games. With the build he’s got, I assume the power will come. He hit .306 last year with Dundedin so it looks like he’s the real deal. I cannot find his throw out stats, but I assume with all these all star berths, he’s got to be good all around.

    Don’t be too surprised if we see him in the September call ups; he’s on the 40 man roster.

  58. tower_1980@hotmail.com

    You’re right, Garryguy, I did enjoy seeing Josh pitch well today. It’s always good to see a pitcher build from difficulty; like I said, maybe he just needed to re-build his confidence. It was also interesting hearing the Fan590 guys talk about him, being this all-around energetic and enthusiastic guy. That suggests he’s a pitch-to-attitude guy, which is disasterous when he gets in a slump. If he’s around next year, whatever. I want a pennant.

  59. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Good work by gsumner to give us the stats of Diaz. Your baseball knowledge certainly isn’t there but you can looks up stats. I would assume Diaz will be called up during September.

  60. gsumner@rogers.com

    I would expect the other kid we’ll see up here soon will be Sergio Santos, ss from New Hampshire. He was an Eastern Leagus AA All Star and won the home run derby at the all star game.

    He’s batting .245 with 16 hr’s, and 47 RBi’S in 83 games. He’s rated to have the best arm in the Jays organization, but has committed 16 errors. I’d expect practising with MacDonald under Butterfield’s supervision, like what they did with Hill, could solve that problem. I also expect some help from our hitting coach could help his BA.

    I think The Jays will want to see how far he can progress-before making a decision over the winter to sign a free agent. There’s not many short stops hitting with that kind of power, especially at 24 years old.

    Might be a good mix with Santos and McDonald.

  61. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I do agree with gsumner about Santos, he is quite the talent. Sometimes those minor league fields are in poor shape so the errors are up. Look at Jeter in the minors, his error total was way up. Brian Butterfield is a great coach and does a solid job teaching. I don’t know if anyone has gone to Dunedin to watch the Jays work out but Butterfield is certainly one coaches that works hard.

  62. robertlee13@rogers.com

    With regard to Santos and Diaz, their stats look good but conventional wisdom is that if a player there age (Santos is 24, Diaz turns 24 in September) was any good, he’d allready be in the majors.

    If you think about free agents, Vernon Wells would be a FA after this year (if not for his extension) at age 29 (which he turns in Dec) Halladay could have been a FA at 28 if not for various extensions, AJ was a FA at 28, BJ Ryan at 30, Glaus was 28, Rios can be at 28, if not for the extension he signed this spring Overbay could have been at 31.

    The point of all of this is that, since you need 6 years in the majors to become a free agent, most of these guys were in the majors before they were 24 years old.

    Overbay’s a bit of an exception, as is Reed Johnson who is a couple more years away (although he’s only bloomed into an everday player in the last year).

    But generally speaking you don’t hear about good players becoming FA’s at 30,31,32 ect.

    They become FA’s before that because they were major leaguers before they were 24 years old.

    Ryan Howard is the obvious exception to the rule. I think he was 26 his rookie year. But he’s looking like a “one in a generation” type of player.

  63. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Great points by robertlee13. I do agree with you there but not everyone as you know.

  64. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    towers.If you watch Towers he’s always joking around with the other players I like that in him.

    gsumner I’m sure we all -1 think you know a lot about baseball I think there is a bug in my computor swat there I got him,how did you like the game today

  65. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I do agree about Towers, always joking and laughing. I think that is very important for team chemistry. Towers pitched very well today and that surprised me.

    What can Gibbons do to jump start this struggling offense? Any thoughts anyone? I am looking forward to the replies.

  66. gsumner@rogers.com


    Diaz is a catcher and everyone knows they take longer than anyone else to get to the majors. He has moved from A to AAA in two years-not a bad move at all. Diaz, still needs some work on his defense, which I’m sure Sal will help in AAA.

    Santos was hurt for the best part of one whole season which has slowed his assent.

    Everyone develops differently and considering most of The Jays draft choices are college players, it’s not all that unusual to see some of them not here when they’re 24.

    But I do think, we’ll see both of them in September. I for one look forward to it.

  67. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    When these guys come up in September. How many games out will the Jays be? Will they be in 3rd or 4th?

  68. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    gsummer Your right about age sometimes their is a glut of differnt position players and they cant all be called up at a young age didn’t Diaz have a collapsed lung not once but twice and Santos being hurt there goes the age.

  69. gsumner@rogers.com

    the garry

    Talking about glut-how would you like to be an outfielder coming up through the Jays system and see Rios, Wells Johnson and Lind. It will become difficult in a couple of years when Travis Snider is ready.

    Yes, I think you’re right about Diaz’s collapsed lung issues.THat put him out for a while didn’t it?

  70. robertlee13@rogers.com

    I agree catchers take longer,
    I agree every one has there own pace, but I’m not sure going from A in 2006 to AA and now AAA this year is impresive, if it took you 5 years to get through rookie and A ball.

    Look, I hope these guys become good major league players bcause that would help the Jays return to being world series contenders, but I don’t think it’s going to happen.

    By the way Diaz was a signing out of the Dominican, not a College drafted player.

    And Santos was a high-school pick in the first round of 2002. That’s a year before Russ Adams, and 2 years before Aaron Hill. Who were both College players.

    Adams made his debut at 24 and Hill at 23, so you’d be right . . . if Diaz or Santos were college players.

    Bottom line on it is this, I was reading the National Post’s baseball blog, and around draft time they quoted some article from one of the prospect publication suggesting that the Jays had a good draft this year.

    The article mentioned that the Jays top 7 picks from this year are probobly all instant members of the Jays top 10 prospects club.

    I assume the other 3 are Lind (2004 pick and College player, who’s allready been to the majors), Thigpen (2004 pick and College player, who’s allready been to the majors), and the Jays top prospect Travis Snyder (2006 pick, HS player).

    What does it say about everyone else in the system, when 7 players just drafted are considered to be 7 of the top 10 prospects in an organization?

  71. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    robertlee I can’t figure out if your for the Jays or against them your very borderline,It dosen’t matter what gsummer comes up with you find fault with it????.

    How about cintron for short from the CHI SOX his BA is down this year but that could be because of the way the team is playing this year and Ozzie the mouth.I think he may come cheap.

  72. gsumner@rogers.com


    It didn’t take Diaz 5 years to get through rookie and A ball. He’s only been in our system since 2004 in which he started at The Charleston Alley Cats our former A- affiliate.

    I didn’t realize The National Post was to be taken as a baseball authority. It was a good draft, but to say 7 of 10 are all top prospects is a bit much. The draft is like a casino, you lay your bets and hope they pan out.

    Sometimes they work out and sometimes they don’t.

  73. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com


    Just because someone disagrees with yourself or others doesn’t mean they don’t pull for the Jays. Obviously robertlee can stick up for himself. Everyone has different view points/observations, that is what makes sports alot of fun in my opinion.

    Alex Cintron as your starting s.s. Are you kidding me? He is nothing but a backup infielder, you already have enough of those.

  74. robertlee13@rogers.com

    I’m for the Jays.
    I’m against JP, and Gibbons.

    I don’t think they’ve done a good job.

    Like I said I hope they become good players that help us get back to WS contention.

    I think all the eveidence gsumner presents is subjectively biased and overly opimistic, I’m balancing that by presenting the other side of the coin. Evidence that supports a subjectively pesimistic view.

    As is often the case the truth will probobly end up somewhere in between.

    I was typing my 6:40 pm post for 15+ min, so I didn’t see the posts about Diaz having a collaped lung. I also just heard that JP made a comment in an interview after todays game that a year from now Thigpen and Diaz might be our catchers.

    So maybe the truth in the middle of the extreems is that Diaz will be a major league player, and Santos wont. Or maybe things turn around and Diaz never makes it but Santos does.

    As far as Cintron is concerned, I think he’s a career back-up. He was good for 1 year (2003) in Arizona and played full time or almost full time for 2 years after that but wasn’t nearly as good. He’s been backing up in Chicago for a couple of years now and his numbers actually keep getting worse.

    I’d say if we could get him for nothing and couldn’t get anyone better maybe he’d be worth a shot, but only in comparison to what we’ve got now. I just took a quick peek at the middle infield free agents after this year, and it doesn’t look good. Hopefully JP can make a trade.

  75. robertlee13@rogers.com



    Signed in 2000. Look at the bottom for his stats over the years.

    2002 Medicine Hat rookie ball and Duneiden A ball

    2003 Pulaski rookie ball (i’ll assume thats the injury year)

    2004 Charleston WV A ball

    2005 Duneiden A ball

    2006 Duneiden A ball

    2007 he’s been in AA and I assume with Thigpen here he’s moved to AAA.

    Wherever you’re getting you’re info is incomplete.

    I recomend TSN.ca, they take there time adding a player (usually only after he’s been added to a 40 man roster) but there info is complete, they even have NCAA stats for many guys.

    I didn’t say “the national post said” I said the post’ baseball blog quoted an article from a prospect publication. Just for you, I looked for it. here’s the link.

    The blog entry


    The actual article from baseball prospectus


  76. gsumner@rogers.com


    The information I posted on the players is not subjective, and not optimistic or pesimistic. Their records speak for themself. If they weren’t good prospects they wouldn’t have been chosen by their leagues to represent the league in all star games like they have. They were chosen because they excelled. I didn’t pick them.

    For your information Robinson Diaz was one of only 3 minor league players selected to the AA all star and the Futures game. To me that means he’s likely got a really good shot to make it.

    Currently Santos is tied for 3rd in AA for HR’s-he was leading the league in that category for quite a while. Again-not bad for a short stop.

    By the way, I didn’t state they would be all stars here, or even make it. I stated we’d likely see them this September.

    I also stated I look forward to seeing both of them; I hope you do too..

  77. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I guess you know your team season is over when your discussing minor leaguer’s. That must stink to watch a team in late July and there season is over. The Jays are playing out the string and you can send your thank you cards to J.P.

  78. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    Just had another look at Cintron “worst”OBP I’ve seen for awhile so much for him.

    CAN ANYBODY HERE SAY “TOWER POWER” All together now 1-2-3 “TOWER POWER”.

  79. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I told you about Cintron and robert lee tried as well.TOWER POWER!!!! TOWER POWER!!!! TOWER POWER!!!! Way to go Josh!!!

  80. robertlee13@rogers.com

    gsumner, honestly I was hoping you were being subjective. I was giving you the benifit of the doubt.

    1)The allstar teams are based on #’s not players’ status as prospects.

    2)numbers DO lie. A common rule of thumb is to be very weary of a players numbers if he is repeating an minor league level (Santos is in AA for the 3rd season of his professional career, after being in AAA for 2 years) – he was demoted!

    3)another common rule of thumb is to be weary of players performance against younger (therefore less experienced and less physically mature) competition.

    these guys being in AA at 23/24 means they’re probobly playing against younger, less experienced, less physically mature competion which means in essence that their numbers lie.

    So let me ask you this, if the Blue Jays consider these guys to be minor league players, do you still want to see them?

    If the team doesn’t view them as players with a shot at “making it” they shouldn’t call them up.

    I’ll look forward to seeing them when I have proof the Jays consider them to be future contributors. In other words I’ll look forward to seeing them if/when and only if/when the Jays actually call them up.

  81. gsumner@rogers.com

    The Garry

    I think the catcher who suffered the collasped lung was Quiroz not Diaz.

    I look forward to tommorow’s game to see what Hernandez is like.

  82. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    gsumner.My bad.

    Remember Halliday -A-ball-AA-AAA-majors -A-ball then up the ladder it can happen to anyone.tower if your still on did you like the three cheers lol.

  83. gsumner@rogers.com


    I thank you for the tsn link. Actually it explains why Diaz was in the minors for so long-they signed him when he was 17.

    By the way, whether the article came from Tha National Post or baseball prospectus doesn’t matter. It’s one writers point fo view and this time he’s wrong.

    It’s like listening to Bob McGowan at 590 and believing everything he says. Like the man knows baseball-not.

    Take a look at where our minor league teams are in the standings. .

    Also take a look at which minor league system has produced the most number of days played by the players they produced for the Majors.

    It’ll surprise you.

    Now why don’t you just relax, because I’m not going to get into an argument with you. Hey try Bosox and debate how long it’ll take for The Yanks to over take them.

    It’s going to be the collapse of the decade.

  84. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Red Sox will win the division by at least 5 games. The Jays will finish at least 3rd place or 4th. Jays will finish under .500 again. Know wonder you guys are talking about minor leaguers. J.P. doesn’t have a clue of what is going on within the organazation anyway. You should let him know about all these hall of famers in the system, then again you might wake him up.

  85. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Halladay pitched well his last time out. Red Sox roughed him pretty good, don’t you guys remember that one? A struggling Red Sox offense roughed up your ace.

  86. robertlee13@rogers.com

    What the Jays minor league system and what the Jays minor league system under Riccardi have produced are 2 different things.

    And to repeat myself, the performance of players playing against younger competion is deceptive. That can be extrapolated to an entire team. If the Jays teams are full of players older than the competition than naturally they’ll beat the younger teams.

    You seriously still think I’m bosox?

    How old are you? Do you have a developmental disibility that would explain your lack of inteligence?

  87. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Baseball prospectus is wrong.

    And I suppose you’re going to tell me you’re right?

  88. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Because I’ve never read anything complementary of the Jays farm system, except for your interpretation of individual player statistics and team standings.

  89. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    How did the no name kid do last night? I see where he got outpitched again. No surprise there that is for sure. The no name kid will be riding the bus somewhere in the minors next year.

    Gsumner is a stat rat and when it comes to his opinion/observation he has no clue of what is going on.

  90. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Oh, shut up!

    So Jesse is going to end up probobly a 5th starter at best.

    So if the Jays were contenderes he wouldn’t be on the team right now.

    We know that.

    You say you like the Jays because spring training is near where you live, well you obviously don’t like them all that much because you never say anything positve.

    Something fans do, is even when the team isn’t as good as we’d like, is support it anyway.

    Please go away.

  91. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I state the facts on here and if I you guys disagree you folks get all mad.

    Look at the Jays right now objectively if you can. They need a s.s., c and obviously some starting pitching and bench help. Do you agree or disagree?

  92. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    If B.J. Ryan doesn’t bounce back to form then the Jays are screwed for sure. All that $$$$$ with Ryan and Burnett and absolutely nothing to show for it. Best thing is for the Jays to **** and then J.P. will go back to Oakland and wash Billy Beane’s car for him.

  93. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    robertlee what the H is the matter with you you claim your not bosox fine then act like your not we all have our own thoghts about how the team should go also about the minors and other players who we would like to see here,It seems no matter what we say you pick us apart.
    You seem to hate gsumner well that effects all of us you dont have to spend all your time proven us wrong.The other guy e-mails a bunch of garbage to me and says Jordan said he could wrong Jordan has more class than that.

    Why can’t we just let by.gones be by.gones and be friends.

  94. robertlee13@rogers.com

    I agree bosox, but fans cheer for their teams anyway.

    You’re a Red Sox fan for cryin out loud. 80 frikin years, the team ****** for most of them and people showed up in the stands and watched on TV anyway because they were fans.

    Did they know and understood the team wasn’t good, yeah. They tried to be positive and have some hope anyway.

    The Jays are never totally screwed, Ted Rogers is one of the richest men in the country. Will he eventually fire JP yes. Thank God yes. But what the **** do you want me to do about it? Stop being a fan?

  95. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Garry, what do you want me to do?

    You tell a fool he’s a fool, and he’ll argue and whine about it. But if you don’t tell a fool he’s a fool he’ll assume your silence means he’s right.

    I think I know more than gsumner, if he’d rather be ignorant fine.

    You’ve told me before you think I know baseball, but you complain when I share my knowedge.

    What do you want me to do?

    By the way, Brian Joyce has emailed me to (today).

    And unfourtunitly Jordan did say we could do that.

    Jordan said something to the effect of “if you’ve got a score to settle why do it here, you’ve got each others email addresses”.

    When Jordan did that I was going to change mine but saw no point because it’d be easy to figure out my writing style and look to old posts to find my real email.

    Just spam his email address.

    That’s what I did.

  96. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    robertlee Thank you for standing up for our team and your right about Boston fans they suported their team for 80 years and the Jay fans will suport them until they win another WS GOOD NIGHT.

  97. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    It doesn’t matter if Rogers is one of the richest guys around. Look at Carl Pohlad the owner of the Twins. He is one richest guys around as well. He doesn’t spend too much $$$$ on the Twins. Remember Rogers is a bussiness man first and foremost. He wants too see a profit first from the Jays and J.P. has a certain amount of $$$$ to spend. Rogers will never go over the luxury tax.

    If you knew anything about the history of the Red Sox you wouldn’t write and say that people showed up in the stands and watched. 1967 was a year that changed everything around. It is known as the Impossible dream to Red Sox fans. The priror season a Sox pitcher threw a no hitter in front of a very small crowd, around 1,500 people. In 1967 on opening day the crowd was small as well. You should know your history before you open your mouth. Sox used to have a AAA team in Toronto back in the day, it is rare but you will find a Sox fan from your wonderful city of Toronto. I say keep on rooting for your team and I would never say otherwise. That is what a fan is all about. I have never said otherwise or written anything along those lines.

  98. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Jays fans are fickle to say the least. Remember when Skydome opened? They were sold out all the time and if they were not they had big crowds. I went to Skydome back in 1990 and went to see a Sox vs Jays series in August of that year. I attended 2 games and the crowds were around 50,000, they certainly don’t get that anymore. Jays fans don’t go out and support the team. I go to there spring training games and not too many fans are from Ontario. Most of the other places you always run into fans from there particular cities but very rarely do you run into a Jays fan. That to me speaks volumes of the fan support or lack there of for the Jays.

  99. robertlee13@rogers.com

    But Rogers has decided in the last few years that he wants a winner.

    And he’ll fire JP eventually.

    Look how long it’s been for the Yanks, you don’t have to go over the tax line to win.

    Well, whatever. Point is why the constant negativity?

    Why keep writing “JP doesn’t know what he’s doing” we know he’s not a good GM, but the owner isn’t going to fire him because fans say so, he’ll fire him when he feels like it.

    Your constant bashing serves no purpose other than to incite hatred. Our hatred of you.

  100. robertlee13@rogers.com

    The strike killed baseball in Canada. If the Jays produce a winner they’ll sell out.

    I watch almost every game on tv, and go to all the games I can afford, which isn’t many.

    Complaining about spring training attendance is kinda ridiculus though. If you lived in the Great White North, and were on vacation to Florida would you do to Duneiden? or would you go to South Beach?

  101. gsumner@rogers.com


    You really can’t help yourself can you. You always resort to personal attacks when you lose a debate.

    Have you checked the average players age in AA? Maybe you should and you’d find Santos and Diaz are in the lower mid age level of AA not the highest. So next time check your facts before babbling.

    By the way, you stated yourself this site is for baseball and not personal attacks. You also stated “do not respond to Bosox.”

    So why don’t you follow your own advice?


  102. gsumner@rogers.com

    On a more positive Note

    Has anyone caught the Tigers -Kansas City game and seen the old uniforms? They’re putting on a tribute to The Negro leagues tonight and wearing the old time uniforms.

    They really look cool.

    I dont know about anyone else, but I like seeing the stirrup stockings versus what most of the players wear today. I also like to see the curved hats versus the straight line the young kids like Jessie and Lind wear.

    Anyone else old fashioned?

  103. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    In other words the Jays fans are front runners just like the Tigers fans are. Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs are the only faithful out there. Nobody can dispute that one.

    What I am saying is if you go to any spring training games you meet alot of people from those cities. You name the team you will see there fans there. In Dunedin very few Jays fans in attendance. There is more than just Dunedin around here. Clearwater Beach is about 5 miles from there or St. Pete Beach as well is not too far.

    Jays fans are fickle and it sounds to me that you are a rare bird when it comes to the Jays. You people on here are just naive and it shows all the time. There are some people on here and say the Jays pitching is not the problem with the Jays. What are they watching????? I wonder, sure the offense stinks but you better have pitching. The Sox in all my life had a lineup that could score 8 runs a game but what good is it when you give 10. Ask Jordan about the Cubs, same ordeal there. You don’t win champinships 12-10. Nobody ever has and this just in nobody ever will.

  104. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I do like the old time uniforms. It is great too see. Has anyone ever gone to the Negro League Museum in K.C.????? K.C. might be one of the ugliest cities in the U.S. but the museum is GREAT!!!! I would say the museum is a must see for anyone that is a baseball fan.

  105. gsumner@rogers.com

    Looks like the Yanks win both ends of the double header and creep to within 7.5 of Boston.

    Boston have been hot lately-what is it now 21-25 since May 30th. lol

    Watch what happens when The Yanks get within 4-5 games. Boston will fold like a bunch of cheap shirts., like they always do.

    So what will Boston fans do-the same thing they’ve done for every one of the last 80 years except one. Wait till next year.

  106. indigo_t@hotmail.com

    I meant to send this earlier but I have been busy . Please note Burnett’s wife gets 8 limo trips but that perk is nothing compared to Dice-K’s perks…..lol…. Plus Dice-K cost more than all Jays starters together . How many did he walk the other day , oh yea 6 …..hehehe. KC beat the sox twice…oh my ….. We all love our team…….GO JAYSSSSSSSSSS
    A.J. Burnett p

    5 years/$55M (2006-10)

    signed as a free agent 12/05

    06:$7M, 07:$12M, 08:$12M, 09:$12M, 10:$12M

    Burnett may opt out of the contract after 2008

    deal includes 8 round-trip limousine trips per season between Toronto & Burnett’s Maryland home for his wife

    1 year/$3.65M (2005), avoided arbitration 1/05

    $0.15M in incentives

    $50,000 each for 190, 200 & 210 IP

    1 year/$2.5M (2004), avoided arbitration 12/03

    1 year/$2.5M (2003), lost arbitration 2/03 ($3.075M-$2.5M)

    1 year/$0.3675M (2002)

    agent: Darek Braunecker & Mark Rodgers

    ML service: 7.038

    Daisuke Matsuzaka p

    6 years/$52M (2007-12), plus escalators

    signed 12/06

    $2M signing bonus

    07:$6M, 08:$8M, 09:$8M, 10:$8M, 11:$10M, 12:$10M

    full no-trade clause:

    may not be traded without consent, provided player gets his first day of Major League service during a guaranteed contract of at least 6 years after player has been with a professional baseball league team other than a major or minor league team

    award bonuses: $0.5M for MVP ($0.125M for 2nd, $0.1M for 3rd, $75,000 for 4th, $50,000 for 5th), $0.5M for Cy Young ($0.4M for 2nd, $0.3M for 3rd), $0.1M All Star start ($50,000 for All Star selection), $0.15M for WS/LCS MVP, $50,000 for Gold Glove, $25,000 for Rookie of Year

    may not be sent to minor leagues

    escalators may increase contract value to total of $60M:

    2009 & 2010 salaries increase to $10M with:

    Cy Young award in 2007 or 2008, or

    top 3 in Cy Young vote in 2007 and 2008, or

    MVP award in 2007 or 2008, or

    top 5 in MVP vote in 2007 and 2008

    2011 & 2012 salaries increase to $12M with:

    Cy Young award in 2009 or 2010, or

    top 3 in Cy Young vote in 2009 and 2010, or

    MVP award in 2009 or 2010, or

    top 5 in MVP vote in 2009 and 2010

    perks: physical therapist, massage therapist, interpreter, 8 first-class round-trip airline tickets per year between Boston & Japan, spring training housing allowance of up to $25,000, Boston housing allowance of up to $75,000, one-time moving allowance of up to $35,000, use of Lincoln Town Car or similar car, Red Sox player ticket package, including 2 field box seats, team employee to assist Japanese media, uniform No. 18

    posted by Seibu Lions 11/06

    Boston submitted highest bid of $51,111,111 to Seibu to acquire negotiating rights with Matsuzaka for 30 days

    agent: Scott Boras

    ML service: 0.000

    Have a good evening all

  107. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    I’m still watching that game yes the uniforms look great.

    Game over.

    Is it just me or has this bosox guy been everwhere he must be rich thats why he’s on here all the time he’s bored I’m sure.

    I hope it’s a good game for hallidays sake tomorow.

  108. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I wouldn’t even compare Dice-K to Burnett. At least Dice-K is pitching and Burnett is doing his usual, WATCHING.

    Dice-K is on his way to winning 18 to 20 games and Burnett is going to win how many? Comparing these 2 is like comparing the passion of Jays fans and Red Sox fans, in other words there is no comparison. At least I made someone here do some homework and that is all stuff that is well documented.

    I said on here that Burnett’s wife get’s limo rides because she is afraid to fly and some of you on here said otherwise. Your own fan just pulled it up for you on here. Good work Indigo. Way to go.

  109. gsumner@rogers.com

    the gary

    I found it interesting that I’m not the only one Bosox is emailing. He emailed Robert as well.

    Bosox is one of those twisted Boston fans who thinks he accomplishes something for the team by being disruptive on other team’s web sites. He’s like a Maple Leaf fan, conditioned to loosing-it does strange things to a guys mnd after awhile.

    Halliday will have to pitch well, considering who Seattle have going. Our bats are due to break out though-hopefuly tommorrow.

  110. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    You guys are stuck with Burnett and you can thank your wonderful g.m. J.P. Indigo says Burnett can opt out after the 08 season, this just in ZERO CHANCE. Why in the world would he? He has 55 million going to him guranteed, one thing I do know nobody would ever give that up.

  111. indigo_t@hotmail.com

    I was not comparing, You brought up the fact Burnett got the perk of a limo for his wife . It is nothing compared to what Dice-K got . Its strange how we bid for the right to offer a japanese player a contract yet no other country is given those same rights . Dice sure doesn’t seem worth his 103 mil not to mention the thousands more in perks he is costing. He has yet to prove himself …..he has 7 pitches..he can walk you with anyone of them . Yes he is a good pitcher but still hasn’t proven to be a great pitcher

  112. indigo_t@hotmail.com

    Halladay has not been himself. He didn’t pitch well in Boston . I don’t know what is wrong but there is something there . Hopefully he is back to the real Doc tomorrow

  113. gsumner@rogers.com


    You’re right about Dice-K-he isn’t worth the money. At best hes a 3rd or 4th starter nothing else. The hype Boston generated helpd him win his first 2-3 games.

    Wait until all the teams know him and he becomes very ordinary.

    I’d take Marcum or McGowan any day over Dice-k.

  114. indigo_t@hotmail.com

    LOL…you make it sound like I gave Burnett the deal . I only posted what is in Cot’s Baseball Contracts.

  115. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    His first year he is going to win 18 to 20 games and usually goes deep in the game. You only give perks to guys that are worth it, is Burnett worth that perk? I would have laughed in his face but J.P. bowed down to his agent. J.P. was the talk of the winter meetings when he signed Burnett and his ego was loving it. Why in the world would you give Burnett that kind of $$$$$$?

    I believe Zambrano of the Cubs is the only that has averaged more pitches per start than Dice-K. Dice-K has been the best pickup of a free agent pitcher. Lilly has done well in Chicago and he signed for 40 million over 4 years. Sox were very smart when they got Dice-K, they’re looking to get into the Japanese market. The $$$$$ they signed him and the posting fee they will make that back and alot more. The $$$$$ J.P. signed Burnett to is a losing investment.

  116. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Marcum or McGowan over Dice-K, are you for real gsumner? He will win 18 to 20 games. Not bad for a guy that has a major language barrier. I can sense the jealousy of the Jays fans here. Call it the way you see it, don’t be blinded folks.

  117. indigo_t@hotmail.com

    You keep telling yourself that Bo..I am happy for you …lol..maybe Drew will play the rest of the year also

  118. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Bosox, I’d like to appologize on behalf of Jays fans.

    Some (see the inteligent) of us realise that Dice-K is probobly going to be better than almost every pitcher in team history not named Steib, Clemens, or Halladay.

  119. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Don’t get me started on that Nancy Drew. Theo Epstein had his head in the sand on that one. I think he consulted J.P. on that deal.

    It is true when you talk about Dice-K about winning that many games. What else should I say?

  120. indigo_t@hotmail.com

    Free agent ? He wasn’t a free agent or you wouldn’t have posted over 50 mil for him …..lol… Yes you will make it back on the japanese souveniers….yup…. I have to wonder why american players aren’t worth 103 mil first time out . I guess they just aren’t as good that is the message being sent. How sad is that

  121. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com


    At least you realize it. Dice-K is better than Stieb though. You left off Jack Morris and David Cone, why? Stieb never seemed to win a big game.

  122. gsumner@rogers.com


    But that wasn’t the poorest free agent signing by the Red Sox-that honor goes to J.D. Drew or Julio Lugo or Coco Crisp.

    Man, Boston have really had some hard luck in their free agents performing huh.

  123. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Crisp was a trade and not a free agent. Please get the facts straight before you start getting on here. Lugo is a nice little move and Drew well he *****!!!! Sox with the bad free agents and they have a big lead in the division. I guess that starting pitching is pretty good.

  124. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Well, Cone was here what 1 year? And Morris was a Jay for both WS but who doesn’t remember him as a Tiger first and foremost?

  125. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Epstien is lucky he drafts good.

    Renteria, Lugo, Drew?

    Think of where the sox’d be if he’d kept Cabrera.

  126. gsumner@rogers.com

    robert-apologize on your own behalf not Blue Jays fans.

    And someone who considers himself so intelligent should at least understand how to spell the word. Duh

  127. indigo_t@hotmail.com

    Robert please don’t apologize for me . I can speak for myself thank you . I have said Boston is a good team . I wish them well and hope they beat the yanks . I am not blind to the Jays faults but I don’t need to read about them constantly being bashed by someone who claims they like the Jays etc etc . I do apologize when i have said something wrong . I am polite and don’t call others names. I have apologized to bo before but I don’t think at this point in time Dice has proved his worth. I am entitled to my opinion as Bo is to his

  128. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    I hear Burnett is going to opt out because Boston wants him their GM has been listening to bosoxbrian and if he says Burnett is no good he must be great belive it or not.

    Thanks indigo see what happens when someone shows him up he crys and none of us disputed the limo rides big deal they dont hurt anyone.

  129. gsumner@rogers.com

    yah, they’re like 21 and 25 since May 30th.lol

    Ok a trade-so who’s the genius who traded for him?

  130. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I think the perks that Dice-K got were ridiculous but Boston is looking at the bigger picture. They’re one of the more successful franchises and the new owners have been great. I spoke about the limo rides with a pitcher that is always hurt and wondered why a club would give a guy that perk. Some of you on here disputed it and indigo did some homework and backed up what I said.

  131. robertlee13@rogers.com

    AVG .252 | HR 13 | RBI 50 | OBP .314 | SLG .429

    AVG .271 | HR 5 | RBI 38 | OBP .329 | SLG .403

    One of these lines belongs to an AL east CF with a contract worth 15.5 mil

    The other belongs to an AL east CF with a 126 mil contract.

  132. indigo_t@hotmail.com

    I never said Burnett was a great signing . I never compared them . You brought up the fact he got perks for his wife and I said they are nothing compared to what Dice got . You are the one tossing them into the same ring , not me . I know the Jays have major problems but they are still the team I support .

  133. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Safe to say Crisp and his small salary are doing better than Wells and his mega contract. Crisp drove in how many runs today? More than the Jays will in a week.

  134. gsumner@rogers.com


    Vengefull little fellow huh!!!

    It’s an improvement though to see you can copy and paste. I’m impressed. WOW.

  135. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I only give perks to players/pitchers that are worth anything. Burnett is not worth anything. The Sox with Dice-K will make that money back and alot more.

  136. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Yeah, little bit eh.

    Oh, wouldn’t I rather have a real #2 starter and an outfield of Lind-Rios-Johnson.

    than what we’ve got now.

  137. gsumner@rogers.com

    bosox-now, now son

    I think you’re getting a bit dilusional. “I only give perks-who are you Epstein?”


  138. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Not vengefull, just comedic.

    and I know I cant spell by the way.

    Never said I could spell, just said I know more about baseball than you.

  139. gsumner@rogers.com

    I like Lind like everyone else, but he’s not yet ready for prime time. Wells is not having a good year-no question about that-although he’ll likley win the gold glove again.

    Personally, right now I’m more worried about our number 1 starter. I’m quite happy with Marcum and McGowan as 2 and 3.

    Be careful in your hatred Robert. It’ll eat you up and spit you out like bubbles.

  140. gsumner@rogers.com

    robert, you never said you were dillusional either,but you are.

    The person who always brags about what they know, knows very little. And that would be you.

    Old Chinese proverb.

  141. robertlee13@rogers.com

    If I can explain myself, I woke up this morining feeling like I was getting a cold (how-in the middle of summer I don’t know), so I stayed inside all day, and I’m at that point of tired and bored where everything is funny.

  142. robertlee13@rogers.com

    “I’m smarter than you are”

    The saying of a white guy named Robert Bruce Lee Jr.

  143. gsumner@rogers.com

    Josh Kreuzer continues his hot streak in Dundedin. He’s now tied for the league lead with 17 Hr’s, 1st in doubles with 29, 4th in BA at .322, 2nd in slugging at .569, 4th in RBI’s with 56.

  144. robertlee13@rogers.com

    He’s 24 years old!

    If he was any good he’d be in the majors by now.

    Wow, deja-vu.

  145. gsumner@rogers.com

    Wow, deja-vu

    So you’d have this kid replace Overbea huh? Next time review the facts before you write-then maybe, just maybe you won’t look so foolish.

    The kids caught-no way he makes it too the majors with us-at least not for the next 4 years, but if he keeps this up he could be reasonable trade bait.

  146. robertlee13@rogers.com

    If he was as good as those numbers suggest they would have traded Overbay.

    Kreuzer would be less expensive. Free up money for other areas.

  147. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Tell you what how about I explain my minor league player philosophy.

    For a high-school pick.

    Drafted during the calender year in which he’d turn 18.

    Same year – play rookie ball.

    Next year (age 19)- play Low-A

    Next year (age 20)- High-A

    Next year (21)- AA

    next year (22)- AAA

    next year (23)- MLB

    This means a player drafted in 1997 would become a full time major leager in 2002. He didn’t spend a full year at each stop like my breakdown, but Vernon Wells was drafter in 97, and progressed through each stop becoming a full time major leaguer in 2002.

    more to follow (because if I did it all at once the post would be even longer than my average posts)

  148. robertlee13@rogers.com

    For a College *JR* pick
    Drafted during the calender year in which he’d turn 21.

    Same year – play rookie ball.

    Next year (age 22) play A ball (both low and high)

    Next year (age 23) play 3/4 of year at AA, before advancing to AAA for the final 1/4 year

    Next year (age 24) playe 1/2 year at AAA, beofre getting to the majors half way through the year.

  149. robertlee13@rogers.com

    For a College *SR* pick
    Drafted during the calender year in which he’d turn 22.

    Same year – play rookie ball.

    Next year (age 23) play A ball (both low and high)

    Next year (age 24) play 1/2 of year at AA, before advancing to AAA for the final 1/2 of year

    Next year (age 25) MLB

  150. robertlee13@rogers.com

    What’s everybody think?

    (Yes I realize it’s 12:38, and you won’t see this for hours)

  151. robertlee13@rogers.com

    I lookd up Troy Glaus and Aaron Hill (because i knew they were both college JR picks)

    Glaus got a call up at 22, and was a full timer at 23.

    Hill was called up at 23, which was ahead of schedule but predicated by the injury to Corey Koskie.

    So both of them were ahead of my schedule. Perhaps to be expected of players of their calible.

  152. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Lyle Overbay – a college SR pick.

    got calls ups at 24,25 before becominga full timer at 26.

    I think his accent to the majors was somewhat blocked by Mark Grace.

  153. robertlee13@rogers.com

    To summarize, I consider the minors to be like school.

    If you don’t advance at a rate atleast as fast as what I’ve got here (if you have to repeat levels) I consider you to have failed.

    And like in school, it’s not impresive if you get straight A’s the second time around. If you were really as inteligent as straight A’s suggests you would have passed the first time.

    Likewise if you’re really as good a player as stats indicate, you would have advaced to the next level on schedule.

    There are exceptions of course (aren’t there always), injury (duh), and being blocked by a player at the next level – in an organization to stupid to either promote you and demote the guy blocking you or trade one of you.

    Ryan Howard for instance was blocked by Jim Thome, finally Thome got hurt so Howard got his shot and Philly wisened up and traded Thome.

  154. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    I sat back and watched tonight/morning,robert bruce lee good name so you can’t spell neither can I but I find most of my words in the dictionary or from my wife and I still make mistakes.I know that I’m not a baseball expert I don’t pretend to be one Take indigo she tries to post here and gets torn down every time,we need more people on this blog so you and some other people need to back off so other guys and gals will come on this blog.I’m not trying to be a jerk and indigo i know you can stand up for yourself thats not what this is about’we have to stop insulting each other and talk good but simple baseball.

    I can say all this because I’m older than you guys are I wonder if that makes me smarter LOL.

  155. gsumner@rogers.com

    the garry

    I’m sure your age and experience makes you smarter than a lot of posters here.

    I see Robert wrote chapter and verse. I’m not sure I ever saw anyone so ancious to try and prove he knows something.


  156. gsumner@rogers.com


    I didn’t realize Indigo was female. It’s great to have women post here.

    Unfortunately your message to Bosox and Robert is going to fall on deaf ears. So the message to you, Indigo and others is post away; do not let these jerks intimidate you.

  157. gsumner@rogers.com

    Joel Collins from Richmond Hill had a great start with the Gulf Coast Blue Jays.

    In his second game (today) Collins, a catcher, went 3 for 4, hit 2 hr’s and drove in 5.

    And I’m sure Roberts respsonse will be ” if he’s any good he should be in the majors by now”.

  158. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Actually gsumner, Collins is 21, and since he was drafted, I’m assuming, as a College JR this year, he’s exactly where he should be, in rookie ball.

    And I’m not trying to prove I know anything. Garry consistantly tells me that he wants me here cause he thinks that I do know a thing or two about baseball, so I post what I know.

    From following baseball, and reading articles and analysis, not just stat sheets, I’ve learned that what I posted late last night is an (albeit rough) estimate of the route/schedule players should take from when they’re drafted, through the development process, and eventually if they’re good enough making it to the majors.

    If you don’t like me, fine.

    If you don’t like how I communicate, also fine.

    But it doesn’t mean I’m wrong.

  159. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I think it is a good thing that people on here have different views/observations about the game of baseball. It is healthy, some folks on here get very personal on here, name calling etc.

    Very good matchup in Toronto today, King Felix vs Halladay. 3 runs might win this one. King Felix should have had a no no vs Boston earlier in the season but of all people Nancy Drew had the only hit for the Sox. That is when Mrs. Drew could hit. The M’s to me are one of the big surprises in baseball this year. When the season began I thought they might get to .500 and that is about it. Outside of King Felix there rotation is very weak. That will be there downfall.

  160. gsumner@rogers.com


    Whether you’re right or wrong isn’t the issue. The issue is, you assume you’re the only one here that reads articles and analysis. You also assume you know more about baseball than anyone else. And you post with that attitude-and that’s what’s wrong.

    Certainly, everyone here has different levels of baseball understanding-but everyone here reads articles, checks stats and reads analysis., and for the most part is a Jay’s fan.

    They all deserve the right to post and express their opinion whether it’s right or wrong.

    And it’s ok to point out their errors. But, you take it one step farther and make sure they know you know more than them. That’s wrong.

    My point is, it’s how you say things not what you say. You don’t need to beat these posters into the ground. Just chill a bit thats all.

    And-No personal attacks and that includes those little inuendos you love to post. If that continues, I’d expect you’ll start to receive them back a lot stronger than you sent.

  161. gsumner@rogers.com


    You might be right on Seattle’s rotation, on the other hand weren’t the ygood enough to sweep your guys, the last time you went there?

  162. gsumner@rogers.com

    I see the Yanks picked up Molina from LA-good move by the Yanks. No bat, but a good defensive catcher.

  163. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Answer me this.
    If I think you’re wrong, do you want me to tell you?

    Because I told you about Santos, and then you brought up Diaz and I told you, and then you bring up someone else and I tell you. Back and forth, vicios circle, waste of time.

    You say you’ve read the articles and analysis which would educate you as to the realities of baseball (with all due respesct, it is a reality of baseball that if a guy is in AA at 24 – he’s probobly never going to make it), and you’ve obviously read my posts, but you reject everything I say.

    If you want to just agree to disagree than say so, because when you reject my agruments I assume you’re saying I’m wrong, and since I’m confident I’m not, I’ll react and post more arguments, getting more and more frustrated that I’m not getting through to you.

    I may have an attitude problem, but I think you’re stubborn. You check stats or read something about a player, and when I presenta sound and reasonable argument as to why that player isn’t as good as he appears, you reject it in the name of having a right to an opinion.

    I don’t get it, when someone gives me valid reasons I’m wrong I’ll consider them, but if you’re not going to consider anything I say, than why bother?

  164. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    bosoxbrian.you remind me of a sore that keeps festering and wont go away so be it,If you wont leave then just tone it down dont insult our team or us,Our GM may make some bad deals but he also makes some good ones,Six years does not make a great GM it takes time like anything else.

    What does everybody think Mattt Stairs trade value is worth now BA this month 189.

    Zauns option year will go by the wayside,he would have to play in all 65 games left and 153 next year not going to happen,Thigpen will play in at least 15 of those games this year.

    From what I read Towers may be traded while he has some value but the most we can get for him is a prospect but the trade will be good for Towers Toronto has won 5 of his last 6 thats pretty good no matter how you look at it.

  165. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Sox have alot of problems in Seattle for some reason. Who knows why that is. Sox are there in early August so hopefully that will change.

  166. gsumner@rogers.com


    hey our GM didn’t sign Drew and Lugo. Epstein did-smart moves, I’d say. Maybe that’s why Bosox continually posts here-he’s upset with Epstein

  167. gsumner@rogers.com


    We’re never going to agree on Diaz and Santos, so I’ll make you a deal. Let’s forget about the subject until September. If they get called up-you owe me an apology-if they don’t I owe you one-how’s that.

  168. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Stairs’ value is definitly diminishing, especially with him getting next to zero playing time.

    Towers, I think we should dump. He’s been good, but we’re out of it and need to start playing for next year.

    I said this allready but I think we should give Janssen a shot in the rotation. Before he injured his back last year (and didn’t tell anyone) he was looking like a future #3 starter.

  169. gsumner@rogers.com


    My take is to trade Stairs now, regardless of value. I don’t see where he fits next year-they have to bring Lind back up sooner than later-for sure in September and I can’t imagine them not keeping him here next year.

    If they can trade Towers-I’d vote yes, but I’m not sure what kind of value he has if any.

  170. robertlee13@rogers.com

    WOW, gsumner, check outside to see if there are pigs flying around your house.

    I agree with you, about Towers’ value, or lack there of.

  171. gsumner@rogers.com

    Well, for sure starters next year are Halliday, Burnett, Marcum and McGowan. If Chacin ever makes it back, it’d be nice to have one lefty in the rotation.

    I don’t see them moving Jannsen from the bullpen-unless Chachin is really iffy in the spring. Then, maybe they start Janssen and put Chacin in the pen-although Romero comes back next year and gives us that other quality lefty in relief.

    I think we must all admit, it’s nice to have options going into next year-by comparison to this one.

  172. gsumner@rogers.com

    well Robert sometimes we can agree-its ok it won’t hurt you. lol

    I’d also dump Clayton right now-and bring up Santos. I see no value in Clayton long term, unlike McDonald who is a definate keeper.

    So going into next year, The Jays will have to add ****-which is exactly why I’d bring up Santos now and see whats he’s got.

    If he makes it with extra coaching from Butterfield and Mcdonald great-we save ourselves 5 mill per year. If he doesn’t-we’ve still gained from what we receive on Clayton. Either way it’s a no lose position.

    Remember the job Butterfield and Mcdonald did with Hill-maybe it can be duplicated.

  173. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Yeah, it’s just with BJ assumingly coming back strong (hopefully) We’d have Ryan closing and Accardo and League for the set-up guys.

    Frankly, I don’t like Chacin.

    He wins games but never (or atleast very rarely) goes deep. Guys like kill your bullpen.

  174. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    gsummer.I’m with you on Stairs I say trade him if they can for Betemit.Right now Betemit has more value for the Jays than Stairs this way we can get rid of Clayton who we don’t need anyway and he may have some trade value at this time of year.

    Right now Towers is playing good and I would hate to see him go until they say we are done but this may be the only way we can get a prospec for him.Mabey Theo wii give him a 3 year 21-mil contract there’s always hope after Drew????.

    brucelee.I to would like to see janssen start again I think Toronto is makeing a mistake by not starting him.

  175. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    When a pitcher can’t find the strike zone wait until you have two strikes on you before you swing the bat why did Zaun swing AVG 206-RBI greed.

    It looks like the DOC is in so far today.

  176. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    Didnt think id ever say this, but Doc looks like Josh Towers today. Imagine our bullpen next year if Chacin can make it as a starter:







    thats pretty good (Wolfe, Litsch and Romero in AAA, not sure if Towers fits in)

  177. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    Since when was Tommy John surgery, “major shoulder surgery.” There are many success stories (Smoltz, Billy Wagner) to a few failures (Kerry Wood). I am confident he can recover. If not, we have the same bullpen as this year, which is still really good (and cheap).

  178. jordanjonathan@hotmail.com

    Yes thank you Troy…..made my day.
    Oh by the way when are they gonna **** up there pride of wasting tons of cash on Thomas and actually put Stairs in the DH role. I mean come on. Were in the second half and Thomas is showing no signs of getting into a groove and when he does its for a game or two. Its like getting mugged and not pulling out a gun to defend yourself. In this case the big gun ( Matty

  179. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    But then you have someone on the bench who can play exactly zero defensive positions. You cant just dump him. Stairs is a good bench option, you need him to be a backup OF. Anyone hear about Hanley Ramirez, separated shoulder ouch.

  180. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Tommy John is major surgery.

    But bosox, he/she was probobly refering you you calling it major *shoulder* surgery.

  181. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    I was refering to the shoulder part, of course Tommy John is major. We should know, it destroyed Billy Koch.

  182. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    Bosox, I was wondering if we ever found out about that Theo Epstein resignation a few years back. Not trying to stir up anything, just curious.

  183. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    bosox is right when he says our GM like his “Boston GM” does makes mistakes like Thomas were stuck with him for two years and mabey an option year,If and only if they can trade him we eat at least 5.4 mil per for two years and what can you get for him Towers has more trade value than him belive it or not

    Stairs hits better when he plays everyday or every 2nd day so I also say play Thomas today Stairs tomorow or the next day if they don’t play tomorow.

  184. gsumner@rogers.com

    it’s amazing what a couple of bunt’s will do isn’t it. I think the two bunts rattled Hernandez. Turning point of the game. Why don’t we do that more often?

    Nice to see. Finally Gibby manages a game. Hope it continues.

  185. jordanjonathan@hotmail.com

    True about having a guy who cant play positions on the bench but when it comes down to it better a strong line up especially with the middle were Thomas has decided to have a picnic instead of hit a ball..He just struck out again by the way. I mean count your losses and play your aces. I was willing to give him time but Ive had enough with him.

  186. gsumner@rogers.com


    I agree with you on Chacin, he does need to go deeper in the game. I hope he can, because imagine our late inning bullpen with Jannsen, League, Accardo and Ryan. That’s got to be as good as it gets.

  187. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Yeah, that’s be one of if not the best ‘pen in the league.

    But 200 innings is more vauable than 80, even if they don’t give him a try towards the end of the year, I think Janssen will get a shot to compete with Chacin next spring. Unless Ryan isn’t healthy by then, in which case he’ll definitly be back in the pen.

  188. gsumner@rogers.com

    I guess i spoke too soon about Gibby

    this is when he really ******me off. We’re up 8-zip, Halliday has already thrown 108 pitches and what does the genious do-he trots him back out there again.

    The man is an idiot

  189. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    Score update: NYY 14 TB 3
    LAA 3, MIN 1

    BOS 3, CWS 0

    KC 5, DET 1

    BAL v OAK @ 4

    CLE v TEX @ 8

    You have to let your ace finish the shutout, he actually finished with 111 pitches according to MLB.com

  190. gsumner@rogers.com

    I think it’ll be 50-50 whether Ryan is ready for opening day. Generally it takes 14-18 months. But if Chacin isn’t on they might give Janssen a go anyway. League brings a big pressence back and can fill Casey’s role, and also relegate Chacin to the pen. We will also get Romero back for opening day

  191. gsumner@rogers.com


    I understand it’s nice to get him a shut out,but Halliday has been iffy in a number of starts, the game was won, and I don’t think Halliday cares one way of the other about a shutout-I think he cares about winning.

  192. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    Tommorow vs Johan, this will tell us if the offense has broken out or if they have had another one of there once-a-week jobs.

  193. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Yeah, Doc entered the ninth with 101 pitches.

    But Gibby’s getting fired at the end of the year anyway, im my opinion.

    Phillips getting cut was a bad sign for Gibbons.

    Phillips was his guy, only on the roster because he a Gibbons go way back.

  194. robertlee13@rogers.com

    I have to disagree, everything I’ve read indicates Halladay takes a lot of pride in going the distance.

  195. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I guess my comment was as dumb as the person that wrote that Ryan would be a contributor for 08. Ryan will not start the year with the big club. Extended spring training for him and if he gives you anything in 08 consider it a gift.

  196. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I am sure alot of Jays fans will be drinking LaBatts if J.P. gets canned. Getting rid of Gibbons does nothing because you still would have the incompotent J.P. at the helm.

  197. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    Great game I dont think 111 pitches will hurt the Doc.What I like is the 10 hits,Glaus only had one hit but what a hit.Mabey the Jays bats will wake up now.

    bosox before you start yipping get your facts straight the shoulder is by your neck the elbow is down your arm a ways and your bone head is up your “___” get it my friend my pal my buddy.

    The Doc is back lets go Jays Jays on a roll

  198. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Yankees are making the Rays look a bunch of high schoolers. Rays has to be the worst I have ever seen. Sox will win today for sure, GURANTEED.

  199. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    Any ideas on good GM candidates? They usually develop under the radar but still its fun to speculate.

  200. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Someone that knows next to nothing is telling me to get my facts straight, now that is funny. Your telling me that Burnett’s wife doesn’t get limo rides and your pal gsumner agreed. Your own fan indigo backed me up.

  201. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    Great to see the Red Sox can take 3 of 4 from the non-contending CWS at home. We’re all impressed.

  202. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    For the Jays, how about Chris Antonetti. A young guy in the Indians front office and has learned under one of the best out there, Mark Shapiro. What do you think? Indians have alot of good young players and a solid farm system from what you read.

  203. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    You should be impressed, Boston will have 59 wins and when will Toronto get there 59th? Jays will get there 59th sometime in August.

  204. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    Hey red sox, it would be nice if you could sweep Cleveland, we need to concentrate on the WC

  205. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    You asked the question and I gave you a name. Don’t ask if you don’t want my opinion.

  206. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Jays need to get to .500. Forget about the W.C. ZERO CHANCE. The Orioles are closer to you. Sox will not sweep the Tribe, a split would be nice. Yankees will split with the Royals so no ground will be made up.

  207. khoenig08@yahoo.com

    Hey I can hope. Its been good talking to everyone, see you tomorrow. Check out how Rochester native Tim Redding dominated Coloado (and Josh Fogg matched him)

  208. gsumner@rogers.com


    So what’s your guess as to when the Yanks catch ya. I’d say by the end of August. Your boys are already playing like they’re in their normal August swoon-only down here from here.

    And what’s this I hear that Epstein has agreed to give Drew an extension for 3 more years-have you heard that?

  209. gsumner@rogers.com


    Hey, I agree with your assessment of Phillips being cut is a bad sign for Gibby. I hope we ****can him before the end of the season and let a new guy settle in.

    We got to watch this, we’re starting to agree too much. lol

  210. gsumner@rogers.com


    “Someone that knows next to nothing is telling me to get my facts straight, now that is funny. Your telling me that Burnett’s wife doesn’t get limo rides and your pal gsumner agreed. Your own fan indigo backed me up.”

    Frankly dude, I like a lot of others here feel you know very little and are just here to be a ****disturber. So unless you want every poster here to jump on to the Boston site and ridicule you there, you’d better mind your tongue and consider every post you make here to be a privilege.

    Got it now?

  211. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Red Sox have won 3 in a row and have scored 29 runs.

    E.S.P.N. is reporting that the Jays have extended the contract of A.J. Burnett and gave J.P. part ownership. LOL…..I will say the Yankees will catch the Sox sometime in 08.

  212. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com


    Your the one that knows very little about baseball. All you can do is look up stats for minor leaguers. Now that is impressive. NOT…..

    Got it now? LOL…….

  213. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    How about the performance of Roy Halladay. Talking about solid, some folks on here were concerned about Halladay. Obviously Halladay proved them wrong. Not too hard to do. Halladay pitched very well his last time out so there was no concern.

  214. gsumner@rogers.com


    I guess what we all have to do is take this debate to the Boston board. OK, works for me-see you there

  215. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    This just in bosox was caught on the computor when he was suppose to paint the fence he is now grounded for a week poor guy.We all know a little about baseball some of us have lives and some of us don’t so the ones that dont have lives come on here and oher blogs and insult everyone no big deal,it there is anybody out there who would like to talk baseball sign in all of us other posters would welcome you,don’t worry about the bad guy cutting you up he dosen’t know anything anyway all he dose is read all the write-ups and puts them together and posts them.that makes him a plagiarizer.

    Now if this team plays like that every game look out it could get interesting down the stretch.

  216. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    The Jays have no chance of going anywhere. There goal should be to reach .500 and finish the season on a positive note and give some young kids a chance to play.

  217. gsumner@rogers.com

    bosox-you might want to go to your home Boston board and check out my posts there.

    Just to let you know-I am very serious about what I posted

  218. gsumner@rogers.com

    I posted this on the NY and Boston Sites

    Bosox-just posted on the NY site-enjoy

    New York Yankee Fans

    I know you guys have had difficulty keeping a Boston fan known as bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com off your site as we have in Toronto.

    With us, he’s even resorted to sending nasty emails to our posters. What he doesn’t understand is when he sends an email he sends personal identification.

    His email comes in as Brian Joyce although who knows if that’s true or not.

    However, for the ones interested his ip address is

    Good luck to the Yanks

    Posted by: gsumner@rogers.com | July 22, 2007 11:45 PM

  219. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    gsumner A little old lady named garry???? I am a male A guy A man with a wife on the Boston site you said I was a little old lady that is real funny I don’t know whether to cry or to laugh.

  220. freedom_fighter1121@yahoo.com

    Hey guys, I just found out that the Jays are intersted in inquiring Pirates shotstop Jack Wilson. I personaly don’t like the idea because I beleive John Macdonald can put up similar stats if he played on a full time basis. What are your thoughts about this?

  221. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    If Wilson cost 500.000 per year it still wouldn’t be a good deal BA 252 H 4 RBI 26 OBP 305 87 games 7 E.Your right MacDonald and Clayton can do the job for now but remember John Macs BA drops the more he plays so he needs help but not Wilson thats my opinion anybody else.

  222. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    Read the Toronto sun today if you so wish….The Phillies GM was in Toronto Sat.to watch Towers pitch????.

    Neat stats Towers and Halliday back to back shutouts Sept.-6-7-2003-Halliday and Towers back to back shutouts what are the odds of that in Vegas 1.000 to 1.

  223. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    gsumner Please don’t post garbage on the Boston site,Most of the posters on Ians site hate bosox they can’t control him so why make them pay it’s not fair.
    A short while ago we all said lets ignor him and he will go away,So lets start today,I am done with him.

    What can the Phillies give us for Towers that can help us now anyone.

  224. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    What do you people think of Jesus Merchan in the Phillies minor leagues-AAA- Ottawa Lynx for Towers if they have to trade him,Me I’ll miss him when his team was in trouble in/05 he came through for us,He has a bad year and everyone wants to get rid of him I’m guilty to but the poster tower changed my mind one month ago.TOWER POWER.

  225. bosoxsux@hotmail.com

    bosox, get a life for crying out loud. Your post show what an idiot you are. I hear Schilling is looking for his bloody sock, go help him find it. I also hear Keith Foulke is looking to be closer for the Red S-U-X. LOL!!!!

  226. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    bosoxsux I think I know who you are what do you hope to gain by this you have just brought yourself down to his level.

  227. matter_1916@yahoo.com

    i think it is funny that the a red soxs fan is telling us that we should get rid of a guy that can’t play 140 games. who signed JD Drew?

    in 2 years we will compare our rotations and it will be completly clear that the Jays is far superior than the red sox.

    As for Glaus i would say keep him unless you could put him in a deal for some one close to Jimmy Rollins and then find a free agent 3rd baseman.

    when is Eric Chavez on the market? i know his bad hasn’t been great the last few years but he would be cheap and potentually be one of the best bargains ever should he re find his swing.

  228. gsumner@rogers.com


    Just so you know, I am not bosoxsux@hotmail. If you review some of the posts on the Boston site bybosoxsux and sentinalofthegods, I think you’ll both figure out very quickly, as I have that these are NY posters who are just as perplexed with Brian as we are.

    I hope you guys are right about ignoring him-we’ll see if that works.

    So you are both aware, I posted his IP address so a moderator who wants to block him, they can block his IP address, not just his email.

    I expect The NY moderator will block him, and if sentinelofthegods and bosoxsux keep up the posting on the Boston site, I’d bet they block him there too.

  229. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    matter ABIG YES ABOUT GLAUS if there are any good free agent third baseman on the market this winter if there is not keep him.

    I think in the end Burnett will be a better deal than JD Drew and Dice k.

  230. gsumner@rogers.com

    The Garry

    Good find on The Sun article. I question if we can get anything for Towers, but you might have picked one that Philly might let go with Jimmy Rollins at the big league club. Merchan just got promoted to AAA; his numbers in AA were strong.

    So you might have found the deal-time will tell. Robert your thoughts?

  231. gsumner@rogers.com

    If last winter was any indication, free agent packages are going up. It sounds like A-rod is set to get 30-35 mill for 5 years or more; and like it or not, that will set the range that a guy like Glaus would command.

    I think we will look back on Glaus, Burnett and Ryan, Halliday and Wells contracts and see they’re were all very good deals for The Jays.

    So to trade Glaus now just for the sake of trading him, would likely end up costing us more to replace his bat output for next season.

  232. robertlee13@rogers.com

    Merchans #’s look good and, though you know my opinion of minor leaguers his age (26), it’s probably about as good a deal as you could expect for Towers.

    And I agree about Glaus, he’s probably going to be playing hurt for the rest of his career (because the problem in his ankle is in-operable bone spurs) but considering the market – his deal is a good one.

    AJ’s deal will continue to look bad until he plays a full season though.

    and BJ’s (assuming he comes back heathly will only look bad until K-Rod signes with the Yankees as Rivera’s replacement when he (K-Rod) ia an FA.

  233. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    gsummer a little old lady like me wouldn’t say something like that.LOL

    Well Marcum tonight the Jays bats have to stay awake tonight and from now on and take some of the pressure of the young pitchers.

    I wonder what the lineup will be like tonight

  234. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    I don’t know if Merchan will fit or not but I also think age is no problem here he is from Venezuela he signed as a minor league free agent 6/21/05/ his OBP and BA is great and now wait for it….He steals bases he could be a great lead off man.

  235. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com


    Burnett was a great deal. Are you kidding me. He gets hurt when he rolls our of bed in the morining. Wells is locked in for roughly 120 million and he has done NOTHING this year. Not exactly money well spent.

  236. gsumner@rogers.com


    I’d be surprised if the lineup changes from yesterday’s game. I liked that lineup-I think Rios is our best option for the 3rd hole.

  237. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    I would agree about Rios in the 3 hole. He is a solid hitter for sure and one of the young stars in the game.

  238. freedom_fighter1121@yahoo.com

    I think Wells is earning his 5 million that he is owed this year. It is next year that we have to start watching him to see if he is earning the 17 million or not. I say leave him alone until next year when he has to put up those numbers that he has put up before (or better).

  239. thegarryguy@shaw.ca

    gsumner I hope when Burnett comes back he stays healthy.This just in JD Drew was just injured when he tried to pick up big Papis bat poor guy but what the heck he gets paid well.

  240. gsumner@rogers.com


    Maybe I’m optimistic, but, I still think by the end of the year Wells hits 300, 25-30 Hr’s and 100 RBI’s.

    I think he’s put too much pressure on himself as MR. Toronto Blue Jay. Maybe he should have a drink before the game and relax. lol

  241. gsumner@rogers.com


    Yes, Drew does get paid well, $14,400,00 this season. The rate he’s going it could cost the Red Sox $1 mill per home run. And you guys think Well’s deal is bad. lol

  242. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    The big difference about the Drew and Wells deal is the Sox have an out in the 3rd year of the deal if Drew injures his shoulder. Drew signed a 70 million dollar deal and Wells signed a deal that is worth 48 million more. Wells isn’t even the best player on his team. I would agree about with freedom fighter about Wells though. Alot of pressure on Wells next year for sure. I wish Drew got hurt if he picked up Ortiz’s bat. Drew has hit better lately but you can’t rely on him.

  243. bosoxbrian@tampabay.rr.com

    Is gsumer and garryguy the same person. I got an email eariler from someone that knows and I think they are and he certainly thought that as well.

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