Game #125: A's at Jays pregame

Oakland (62-64) at Toronto (63-61)
at 7:07 p.m. ET at the Rogers Centre

Today’s lineups:

Jeff Davannon, CF
Marco Scutaro, SS
Nick Swisher, RF
Jack Cust, LF
Mike Piazza, C
Dan Johnson, 1B
Mark Ellis, 2B
Jack Hannahan, 3B
Kurt Suzuki, C

PITCHING: RHP Dan Haren (13-4, 2.54 ERA)

Reed Johnson, LF
Lyle Overbay, 1B
Alex Rios, RF
Vernon Wells, CF
Frank Thomas, DH
Troy Glaus, 3B
Aaron Hill, 2B
Gregg Zaun, C
John McDonald, SS

PITCHING: RHP Dustin McGowan (8-7, 4.14 ERA)

NOTES: Another slow news day here at the Dome. You know that’s the case when the biggest "news" out of the pregame came when Jays manager John Gibbons said the team will need a third catcher as part of the upcoming September call-ups. So, that means either Sal Fasano, who was recently banged up in a collision at the plate, or prospect Robinzon Diaz could get the call. … Outside of that — not much going on. … Gibbons didn’t want to discuss the McGowan pinch running situation more than he had to, saying he didn’t want to provide any more "ammo" for people to use. Interesting. … Some more news on LHP David Purcey. The pitching prospect — out since June with an elbow injury — is slated to take part in the Arizona Fall League, which begins in October. … On this date last season Gibbons chased pitcher Ted Lilly into the tunnel behind Toronto’s dugout, where a fight broke out. Ah, the good ol’ days. I’m leaving on a jet plane tomorrow for the West coast. So, probably no blogging tomorrow.

entering Tuesday
1. Boston 75-50 (–)
2. New York 70-55 (5)
3. Toronto 63-61 (11.5)
4. Baltimore 57-65 (16.5)
5. Tampa Bay 47-77 (27.5)

entering Tuesday
1. Seattle 70-52 (–)
2. New York 70-55 (1.5)
3. Detroit 67-57 (4)
4. Toronto 63-61 (8)
5. Minnesota 62-62 (9)

TICK, TOCK…Since 1995, the runner-up in the AL Wild Card race has finished with an average of 89 victories. The Blue Jays would need to go 27-11 over their final 38 games to reach 90 wins.



    Gibbons generates plenty of ammo by Xeroxing his lineups every day instead of moving underperformers around.


    Jordon, thank you for the information on Purcey-that’s good news; meaning he’s not meeting Dr. Tommy John.

    I’m not surprised at Gibby’s reaction to the McGowan question. I’m sure JP questioned him on such a dumb move.

    It was the bottom of the 8th, we were down 6-3, with 2 out. I would think differently if it was 6-5 and McGowan was potentially the tying score.

    Why risk a prized starter, scheduled to start tonight that we have such a huge investment in?

    What was wrong with using Tallet, or Wolfe?


    As I mentioned earlier, if the game went to extras, Tallet or Wolfe might have pitched, but McGowan definitely wouldn’t have.


    torgen-then use one of the guys on the bench-or Jessie Litsch-to use McGowan-next day’s starter was stupidity


    Besides we were 2 out in the bottom of the 8th against their 8th inning guy and closer coming up. We were heading into the poor part of our lineup-so there was little chance we could score 3 runs and tie


    torgen-please-do you not think I know that. Dr. Tommy John has become a bus word for the operation in case you didnt know


    In very long extra innings games you sometimes have to use starters as relievers, but even in such a case you would never use the next day’s starter. Litsch may have had to pitch the 18th, but McGowan would still not have been brought in.


    you have your opinion, I have mine, and mine is Gibby was an idiot for using him. If McGowan had gotten injured and couldn’t pitch today or through the end of the year or ever what would you have said then.

    He was needed for the 18th. common already give it a rest


    Litsch isn’t a franchise pitcher-McGowan is-there is one h e l l of a difference and you know it


    I’d like to think that as a Major league player, Dustin could run the bases pretty well without hurting himself; on top of that he looks like a pretty good athlete.
    We haven’t heard of any kids getting hurt running the bases on Jr. Jays Saturdays.

    So my thought on Gibby using Dustin last night is good on him for taking such a huge gamble. (sarcasm on huge)



    Would you feel the same if there was a play at home plate where Dustin got banged up by the catcher?


    alright guys DROP THE MCGOWAN DISCUSSION i fear it’s gonna turn into a lethal war soon. Something like with bosox and richard or whoever owned that horrible company before. Gibby made his decision you all said what you thought and i am sure no one wants it to go further.


    Agreed on that point Torgen. I’m sure Dustin’s smart enough to avoid colliding with the catcher.


    let’s talk about tonight’s matchup do u think the jays stand a chance again haren. He’s been way too good this season and our offense underperforming he prolly is the worst guy that can come up. Unless the offense start up today then he is the best cause that might give the jays some more confidence.

    ALso wells seems like he is pulling it together as of late.


    guys i’m sure dusting knows how to slide but i’m pretty sure so does jeter remember wat happened to him in the first game of season couple of years ago at 3rd base. that being said what happened to jeter is pretty rare so there we go you each have a point now lets stop talking about the controverisal move gibby made.


    where is garry thought he’d be here by now, oh and wat channel is the game on today. it’s not on Sportsnet.


    I won’t believe Wells is putting it together until he hits a homer. Likewise for Rios. Both have gone almost a month. Rios has been an on-base machine, but without power behind him it’s not so useful. Johnson’s OBP vs. RHP has looked a little better lately, but it’s still under .300 for the month, and that just won’t do for a leadoff hitter.


    I think the game is on TSN, but I’m closer to A’s territory than Jays, and I’m stuck with Gameday Audio because of the local balckout.


    i think johnson is coming back slowly and you have a point about wells certainly needs to hit more big ones. Rios is turning into miguel tejada have u guys noticed?

    OVERBAY does not deserve number 2 right now. It should be hill or rios. Perhaps at number 2 rios’s power will come back.


    i’m using gameday not audio i don’t get tsn. perhaps i’ll listen on Fan 590 later but i don’t like the guys there


    not good first 2 batters on base guess us talking about the pitcher making the start before the game is jinxing them. like marcum yesterday


    I thought Gibby pulled McGowan an inning too early. The kid looked as if he was on a roll so why not give him the extra 3 outs (or 110 pitches w/e happens first).



    My understanding is Gibby felt Mcgowan was done, because he ran the bases last night.



    This McGowan thing has got everybody fighting Gibbons was wrong.

    What I cant understand is why Gibbons is still the manager of the Blue Jays the man is a goof all you have to do is listen to the way he explains his stuped moves.

    This team needs a new manager hitting coach and GM.

    Baseball is suposed to be entertaining but this rubbish the Jays are feeding us most certainly is not.


    I’m with you on fan 590 those two announcers are so condescending it makes me sick.

    But dont worry I hate the TV Announccers on sportsnet to I watch the game without sound.



    I see the Yanks Cy Young candidate-Mike Mussina has been a bit off the last couple of games.

    6.2 innings in total and 13 era’s. Great Yankee Pitching staff.


    You need to relax G. If you don’t agree with me about McGowan I couldn’t care less, but i was just stating that I would’ve left Dustin in there. just because I agree with one decision that he made doesn’t mean I have to agree with all of them. I’m starting to think Bosox was right, u seem to take it a little personal one someone disagrees with you.



    I think you need to relax. My post to you was meant as a joke and I assumed you recognized that. Sorry you misunderstood.


    no we certainly are out of the play-off race noone else except doc seems to be winning.

    I like the sportsnet announcers. What do you have about jamie?

    There you go enigma i think gsumner just gave an apology.


    btw *** is wrong with the jays defense we just lost another one today cause of horrible defense.


    I said earlier: If we play like we can, we have a chance. If we play like we have, we don’t. Which of those did this series look like?


    Sorry about that then sumner, I really didn’t think you were joking lol. I apologise.

    At any rate the jays are done this year. I’ve said it before J.P. has less then a year with me before I start to feel that he should be fired. If the jays don’t look like serious contenders by mid-may next year, then i’d fire him. (how I wish I owned the team)


    Where is everybody cat got your tongues we only lost three in a row it’s not the end of the world let’s try to figure out what went wrong.
    Hill must be tired he is making to many errors or is he just discouraged and giving up.

    Our starting pitchers must be pulling their hair out by the roots. They’re pitching their hearts out and getting nothing to show for it.

    At the start of the year pitching was our weak point, or so we thought. It turned out to be our strong point we were supposed to have a very strong offense. Instead it is non-existant. Our defense has been great until lately it’s starting to look a lot like our offense has all year.

    Every year at about this time, our team falls apart. It seems every time we have a shot at the wildcard, we give up. Can any of you figure this out? I know I’ve been banging my head against the wall and I can’t.

    Well we’re on the road again and as you all know we have a terrible road record. Can anybody see it turning around? I’m afraid I can’t.

    I think we now have to look towards next year and maybe start talking about the playes we would like to see come up. Any ideas anyone?

    Tonight my grand-daughter is visiting and as yu can tell, she is typing for me. I use one finger. She uses two hands. That’s why the long post.


    The game was not televised today, and I forgot it was on early, so I missed it on the radio. But it looks like Burnett pitched another quality game. That’s three in a row now. That’s the best he’s done since Halliday was out. We just may have the number two started we paid for.

    I hope Jesse Litsch gets a better deal than he has his last two starts. If he doesn’t, he may get seriously discouraged and that’s the last thing he needs at this point in his career.



    No need to apologize.

    I don’t think JP is the problem, I do think Gibby is. JP has done a great job of delivering the players, rebuilding the minor league system and drafting. The proof in that is how the teams in the minor leagues are playing against their peers and when you check it out-they’re doing fine.

    I’m not sure what the problem is with the Jays-all i know-as you do-is they should be performing an awful lot better than they arre.

    The offense is a joke. When you look at it, it’s the same offense as last year-with the addition of Thomas-so one would assume they’d perform better-but they haven’t

    Why-is the question-and I don’t know about you-but I have no idea.

    As a long term baseball player and fan, I see and recognise mistakes Gibby makes. Of course I see these and make judgements on them without knowing what’s going on in the clubhouse.

    The mistakes I see him make are continual and consistent-like he never learns from past errors. As such, I feel he needs to be replaced.

    I do think we have the right mix of players-I just don’t think we have the right management to ensure maximum performance each night.

    Sometimes when I watch a game, I feel these guys are just simply mailing it in-there doesn’t seem to be any motivation at all-and that-at the end of the day is Gibby’s biggest responsibility.


    this is a fact: I wish you owned this team, too.

    One thing I know for sure, you never would have hired J.P. or Gibbons or the last manager, Carlos T. And we would probably be in the play-offs… two or three times by now.

    Tell me this, would you have brought Thomas here? Would you have traded Glaus? Who would you have brought in for shortstop? Would you have brought in Matt Stairs as the DH? Also, would you get rid of Thomas this winter? And keep Stairs as the DH?

    Looking forward to your answer.


    Wilner was defending Mickey Brantley with one caller (saying ultimately it’s up to the hitters) and agreeing that our hitters don’t change their approach with two strikes with another. You can’t have it both ways. If they need to change their approach, whose job is it to tell them?


    Can’t get rid of Thomas. Nobody will eat his contract after this year. (Unless he hits 15 more dingers in the next month-ish.)


    If we have a problem with team discipline now, it’s not going to get better with Tony ‘DUI’ LaRussa managing.


    My granddaughter is twice the age of yours.

    ’nuff said.

    Read the post I posted to enigma and give me your answer too.

    Same goes for anyone else who’s on tonight. What would you do if you owned the team?


    Tony La Russa would be a much better choice than Gibbons. I think when Gibbons had that fist fight with Ted Lily and the problems he had with Hildebran, who is a waste of skin, cost him a lot of respect from his players. And I think something like that stays in the clubhouse and festers as long as that manager is with the team. Remember, everything is not always as it seems and we can’t believe anything the Blue Jays’ management tells us. Also, that outburst by Towers this year most certainly didn’t help. I think what it says is Gibbons has no control over his players, and not near the respect he thinks he has. That could be the biggest problem this team has.

    JP is losing the respect of the Blue Jay fans because he just sits back and does nothing. At least that’s the way I see it through my eyes.



    good for you.

    I like thomas, I wouldn’t trade Glaus, I like Johnny Mac as SS, and I like Stairs as a left handed bat coming off the bench.

    I like the players we have-I just don’t like Gibby-he’s the one, in my opinion that needs to be traded-the sooner the better.


    LaRussa has his own pitching coach, so if we bring him in, we lose Arnsberg, which means Burnett probably opts out. Bad news if he’s pitching like the guy we paid for.


    I haven’t been here in a while and thought I’d chime in.

    First thing I do is FIRE EVERYONE! Godfrey, JP, Gibbons, Witt, Brantley, (I’d keep Arnsberg if he’d stay despite all the firings)

    I’d try and get one of the “free-agent” executives in this offseason: Bill Stoneman (Angels) if he’d leave Anaheim or Brian Cashman if (and it’s looking less and less likely) he’s fired.

    Beyond management:

    I’d trade any or all of the above for the right offer: Thomas, Glaus, Burnett.

    I think Thomas is basically done, Glaus will be hurt for the rest of his career, and ditto for Burnett (i’d rather have a lesser talent make 30+ starts than AJ making 20).

    IF he’d come (and he won’t but I’l say it anyway) I’d try to sign Jorge Posada for a 2 year deal, and dump Zaun.

    Overbay is still hurting and will be for the rest of the year but I think he’ll return to form, ditto with Johnson.

    And I think it’d be a panic move to trade Wells with his value so low.

    I like McDonald more and more everyday but, if we could get an improvement (Eckstein is the only FA worth signing) I’d do it.

    Who ever the new manager is needs to be A LOT better at managing a game in terms of manufacturing runs.

    My line-up with the current roster










    And do just “give the green light” to the top 3 guys but TELL THEM TO RUN!! They’ve got speed but don’t use it.


    From zero to one hundred percent, what percentage do you think we have of signing La Russa? I think Gibbons is gone for sure. I think money will play a big part in our chances of signing La Russa. My pick is 25%.

    We need a hitting coach that’s not afraid to work with these players and teach them the fine arts of hitting. Rios seems to be the best we have. Thomas you can’t change or help because of his style. It’s something he has to work on by himself constantly. But the rest of the players you can better. I don’t mind Butterfield. Can’t say much about the pitching coach, the way these guys are pitching.

    My biggest beef with this team is Overbay in the two hole. He has no speed, forget the left-handed bat. It’s no good if he’s not hitting. In fact, it’s a hindrance. When is Gibbons going to get that through his thick head? My opinion: never.


    you just named the same line up I named a few days ago. And I’m with you on that one. I also agree with a lot of the things that you said. As for Burnett, I think he’s over his aches and pains. Arnseberg has to stay. This team is pitching was above par. He has to be a big part of the reason. As long as he stays, so will Burnett.


    My pick is zero percent.

    There are no indications that JP is in any danger of losing his job, and I don’t think he’ll ever hire a competent manager (this is what? year 6? and he hasn’t had one yet).

    Agreed on Overbay (obviosly based on my line-up).


    I agree about Arnsberg, but what makes you think AJ is over it?

    I’ll start to think he’s over it when there are rumors that he’s in pain but pitching anyway.


    I would have no problem with Overbay hitting second if he was still hitting doubles because he could drive in Johnson from first.
    Nioka (currently playing in Japan) is a better free agent choice than Eckstein. Our worries about production from the shortstop position would be moot if the rest of the lineup was producing up to expectations.


    WOW seems like i missed a huge discussion yesterday!!

    anyways granpa sumner i’m gonna say we got a 26%chance of signing la russa.

    granpa garry i wouldn’t trade glaus, i wanted to trade burnett earilier but we will never get the right price for him so might as well ride him out atleast for next season unless he does horrible from today onwards. No one is gonna pick-up thomas now but if i were manager, i would have sign thomas to a 2 year but will less money and more incentives.

    But if thomas was not performing and stairs was then i would have traded thomas for a good left-handed pitcher in the bullpen and a few prospects and placed stairs as DH. Then this offseason i would let go of tallet and rearrange the bullpen slightly.

    FOr short i would sign eckstein(i stated earlier that i like the guy) and put him in the 9th hole. So we have true speed in 9-3 or 4 and we can play some small ball.

    i would have signed zaun this offseason cause he provides leadership in the clubhouse but if needed i would also make him number 2.

    This offseason i would basically trade if we get the right price: thomas and burnett.

    Oh and i would certainly trade chacin or towers. Perhaps chacin since he might get us more in return and i would for sure get rid of gibby. Keep JP he made some good moves a couple of seasons ago.

    Do you guys agree with the moves i’d make? Please i want some feedback on my post this time:)


    If Burnett pitches for the rest of the year the way he is now, you most certainly would not want to trade him. If you think he’s going to opt out by the end of next year, whether or not you trade him would depend on what posistion the team is in by next July.

    Thomas was a poor sign-in because of his age. And remember, he did have ankle problems, which may haunt him yet. He runs like Benji Molina and the price was too high, as you so stated yourself.

    torgen stated there was a shortstop in Japan by the name of Nioka who was available. I wonder what his stats are? Maybe torgen can help us there. Personally, I like Johnny Mac.

    As far as Zaun goes, he was never my favourite. I believe he thinks of himself more than the team. Remember this guy used to take a bath in a tub of beer.

    Gibby definitly has to go. What I don’t understand is why we talk about him affectionately by using the term of “Gibby” instead of Idiot.

    Hey guys and gals. Anybody else have some feedback for harry????


    you’re right. if this line up was hitting, our production from the shortstop posistion would never enter our minds. The defense has been unbelievable. I’m not for all of these Japanese players coming over here to play in the majors. I think most of them are a big hype. Although there are some good ones.

    You’re right about Overbay not hitting. But the two hole is not the place for him. Too slow. When he is hitting the six hole would be the best. But remember, that’s only my opinion.


    Nioka is a .350 OBP, .450 SLG type hitter and a good defender. He’s been a pretty consistent 15HR guy, but remember that in Japan, the outfield fences are ~15ft tall. (At least they are in many stadiums, including the Tokyo Dome, which is Nioka’s home stadium.) A few years back he had around 15 stolen bases, but in Japan they bunt a lot and don’t steal much.


    I have been inspired by garryguy. In case this word, or phrase, hasn’t already been coined, I’ll do so now:

    Gibby + Idiot = Gibbiot.

    Catchy, no? I personally would not refer to him as an idiot, but I feel he doesn’t have the kind of Captain or Leader feel I would expect from a coach. I’ve met him, and he seems like a typical Texan. My buddy nicknames him “Boomhauer”, as from the show “King of the Hill”, because of the way Gibby talks. But he must be doing something right if Guillen invited him as an All-Star coach?



    I agree with you on Godfrey, Gibbons, Whitt and Brantley. I like Arnsberg and Butter who have both done a good job. I also like JP.

    I’m not sure about Eckstein. He hits for higher average than Macdonald, but is poorer defensively and currently makes 4.5 mill per year. He’ll likely get 6 mill, and if we pay him 6 mill-we probably will not resign Johnny Mac. There’s little diffence between the two and I think defense at SS is more valueable that 30 points in BA. I also don’t think it’ll cost us 6 mill for Johnny Mac. So I’d take Johnny Mac over Eckstein.

    I agree with your lineup. I’d trade Thomas, resign Matt Stairs and keep Glaus. I would not resign another DH, but instead use that spot in the lineup to put either Stairs, Glaus, Lind, Rios Wells or Johnson on days when they need a partial day off but keep the bat in the lineup.

    I wonder if Pat Gillick would consider coming back as president?


    Gillick is too busy working for the Phillies to come back to the Jays.
    Like I said before, if anyone will even take Thomas, it’s unlikely that they’d give up much after the year he’s having, and even then we’d probably have to pick up a bunch of his salary. Plus, he has that vesting option, which makes him even less desirable, because whoever trades for him might be stuck with him for 2 years if he continues as he has this year.


    Nice series gainst the A’s. Yeah right you’re going to be challenging for a playoff spot!!! LOL!!!! You fools ****, you can’t even beat a team like the A’s.Well, you guys are one less team the Yanks are going to have to worry about. Keep playing yourselves out of the playoff picture I need a good laugh. Just keep saying what you always say every year. Wait until next year!!!!


    Sumner, I personally would keep the team pretty much the same next yeaR, the only exception being that I would bring a- Castillio at second (move hill to short), or b-Eckstein at short and the 3rd option being J. Mcdonald. In a perfect world i’d sign Eckstein and if he’s still willing to be a back-up then John as well. About the only thing I would have done differently last off-season was to have gone after Barry Zito if it was possible under the budget (though in hindsight it was great that they didn’t go after him, would’ve been a bad move.) I would’ve also tried out Nomar Garciaparra as a potential shortstop before going after Clayton. Other then that I had no problem with J.P. signing Thomas and keeping Glaus at the deadline this year. Thomas though in my opinion should have been after giving a courtesy call to Nomar. Bosox had told me that Nomar was staying in LA but i am sure had the jays approached him with a better offer then LA he’d consider it.


    My ideal line-up for next year:

    1) Johnson

    2) Castillio

    3) Rios

    4) Wells

    5) Overbay

    6) Glaus

    7) Thomas

    8) Hill

    9) Zaun

    Bench: Stairs, Adams, Thigpen or Fasono and Mcdonald (assuming he doesn’t mind the back-up role).

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