Game #139: Jays at Red Sox pregame

Toronto (70-68) at Boston (85-55)
at 7:05 p.m. ET at Fenway Park

Today’s lineups:

BLUE JAYS
Vernon Wells, CF
Matt Stairs, LF
Alex Rios, RF
Frank Thomas, DH
Troy Glaus, 3B
Lyle Overbay, 1B
Aaron Hill, 2B
Gregg Zaun, C
John McDonald, SS

PITCHING: RHP Shaun Marcum (12-5, 3.75 ERA)

RED SOX
Julio Lugo, SS
Jacoby Ellsbury, LF
David Ortiz, DH
Mike Lowell, 3B
J.D. Drew, RF
Kevin Youkilis, 1B
Jason Varitek, C
Coco Crisp, CF
Alex Cora, 2B

PITCHING: RHP Curt Schilling (8-6, 4.02 ERA)

NOTES: This marks the first time the jays have faced Schilling since September 2005. … Not much news today. OK — no news today, really. Stairs is still in the lineup and LF Reed Johnson understands completely: "You’ve got Stairsy getting four hits a night and hitting three-run home runs. We’re 6 1/2 games out of a playoff spot. It’s a situation where we’re out to win ballgames right now and he’s the choice." Talk about a team guy. … Since the beginning of the 2002 season, no Major League pitcher has more complete games than Roy Halladay (28), who also leads the AL with 91 wins over that span. … Mrs. Bastian made it safely to Beantown today and she’s taking in the Jays-BoSox game from the stands. We’ll be hanging out in Boston until Sunday, so the blog may be a little inactive until the Jays return back home.

AL WILD CARD RACE
entering Wednesday
1. New York 77-62 (–)
2. Seattle 74-63 (2)
3. Detroit 73-65 (3.5)
4. Toronto 70-68 (6.5)

REALITY CHECK…Since 1995, the runner-up in the AL Wild Card race has finished with an average of 89 victories. The Blue Jays would need to go 20-4 over their final 24 games to reach 90 wins.

153 Comments

No chatter on the blog tonight.
It looks like were going to make grampa shill.a winner tonight.

If the jays don’t show something by the 3rd I’m going to go watch the birds.

Nobody said Jhonny Mac had power lol.

Stairs MVP MVP MVP.

They don’t seem to care if they win or not .
Glaus looks like he should be using a walker at 3rd.

Marcum is a little of tonight.

It’s funny but when this team wins three in a row everybody is posting but when they loose the blog is dead????.

When dum dum hit a batter bring in downs for the left handed hitter wolfe was probly a little bit shaken up then frasor for the 7th jansen for the 8th then acardo for the 9th Abner.

Do you think Gibbons knows something we don’t,He wont even come out of the dugout to argue close calls,Could he be getting the axe????.

I swear that’s the first game winning hit Wells’ has hit all year.

. . .

And I missed it ’cause I’m watching Federer vs. Roddick.

Varitek is a switch hitter. If you bring in a lefty to face him, he’ll bat from the right, and his OBP and SLG are both higher from the right.

I pulled this out off of one of the Jays PR’s.

Blue Jays designated hitter Frank Thomas singled in the sixth inning on Tuesday night, extending his season-high hitting streak to 14 games. During the run, which is the longest this year for a Toronto hitter, Thomas has hit .352 (19-for-54) with two homers, four doubles and eight RBIs.

The slugger made it 15 games on Wednesday, hitting the first pitch he saw from Curt Schilling for a single to left field.

Toronto’s Troy Glaus didn’t get a hit on Tuesday, but the third baseman drew a walk, which gave him at least one free pass in each of his past seven games. Over Glaus’ past nine contests, he’s hit .400 (12-for-30) with six extra-base hits, including three homers, and 10

What I’d like to point out is both of these guys have post season successful experiences. They’re showing what they’re worth, bringing it when it’s really needed.

For all the folks that want to trade Glaus, maybe this will help you understand how valuable he is. He certainly didn’t win MVB of a series by not performing when it meant the most.

I have to say I only half agree with you gsumner.

“When it’s really needed” would have been earlier in the year when with Wells strugling Johnson, Zaun, and Overbay were out injured.

Thomas and Glaus were a part of the problem during that time; only Rios and Hill earned their paychecks early in the year.

and

“when it meant the most” (I know I’m taking this out of context)

would have been the first 8 games after the all-star break against Boston and New York.

Frank Thomas played 7 of those 8 games.

He had: 8 hits, but just 1 extra base hit (a double), 3 RBI’s, and an atrocious 3BB to 6K ratio. His OBP and SLG both dropped 5 points during those 7 games.

Troy Glaus played all 8 games.

He had 11 hits, including a double a triple and 3HR’s, he had 7 RBI’s, 3BB 6K’s(atrocious just like Thomas but forgiveable given the rest of what he did). His OBP only went up 3 points but his SLG improved 32!! points.

You’re right on Glaus being valuable but you’re pointing to the wrong games when evaluating him. The Jays chances ended with their weak showing in Boston and NY, what he’s done in the last week to 10 days is not clutch; it’s too little too late.

Thomas has not had much post-season success, because he’s only played like 16 playoff games. He has 3HR and 5RBI in his playoff career.

Robert-you miss one very big and important point. Glaus has been injured all year. He could have done what Giambi did and spend two months on the DL.

He didn’t instead he’s played hurt all year.

I’m not going to argue which games are the most important,; what I do know though is he’s the only Jay who’s won an MVP award for a world series. That’s prove enough.

Hey, I do have a suggestion which I’d like you to consider.

If we resign Stairs, I’m thinking we should try to package both Johnson and Lind in a trade to someone for a yong outfielder with good defensive skills, good contact hitter and good base stealer to fill the lead of spot.

Any suggestions?

I wonder if the Devil Rays would take Johnson and Lind for Carl Crawford?

First Crawford is one of the best outfielders in the league and he’s signed to a discount contract; translation: Tampa would demand Marcum or McGowan AND Janssen or Accardo. Crawford is a)that good and b) Tampa overvalues their outfielders that much.
Everyone knows they should have traded him 2 years ago, now young pitchers are to valueable to trade and Tampa is stuck looking stupid and too stuborn to trade him for less than a package like I mentioned.

As for left field: I think we should employ a platoon. Stairs starts vs right-handed pitchers, Johnson starts vs left-handed pitchers and comes in as a late game defensive sub.

Lind is headed for AAA (so says riccardi on the radio yesterday).

Next years line-up (unless Riccardi does something)

Stairs/Johnson

Rios/Wells

Wells/Rios

Glaus

Thomas

Overbay

Hill

Zaun/Thigpen

McDonald

Lind and Johnson for Crawford? You’ve got to be kidding me — Crawford is a five tool guy and a franchise player to boot. Tampa would have to be out of their mind to make that trade.

And I have to agree with Robert when it comes to Thomas and Glaus’ recent performance — it’s great that they’re playing well, but the time for them to step it up a notch was long ago. Although I’d love to see a massive comeback, the Jays’ playoff chances died quite some time ago.

Although I always backed the Thomas signing (the Jays haven’t had a DH put up these numbers in years), I still think they should have traded Glaus a while back when his value was still high. Now he’s just another broken down slugger who’s range at third is diminishing. Come to think of it, it probably would have worked out better if the Jays had never signed Thomas — then maybe they could put Glaus at DH….

Robert

Crawford’s contract might be a discount to us, but I’m not sure it’s a discount for the Devil Rays-by the time he gets to 2008-the numbers get really large for Tampa and they have shown the tendancy to move large contracts.

He is a good defensive outfielder-although his offensive numbers are down this year. What I like about him, are his stolen bases.

Hey, Tampa can demand what they want, but no one in their right mind would trade McGowan, Marcum, Janssen or Accardo for an outfielder-get real here.

I still see value in the trade I outlined, because Tampa would dump $4 mill per year in salary and get two outfielders for the price of one.

All that being said, who would you trade for?

gsumner.
It seems that I’v upset you about the glaus and thomas thing,Now you seem like an intelligent person and you must know that the chances of glaus playing sound next year are slim,You yourself said he played hurt all year right.

Now put another player with a little less power lets say 25-HR-105-RBI-25-SB-with a good OBP-SLG and 300 avg,now where would we be.

Players who play hurt all year long hurt the team.

garry-you never upset me

Glaus has an injury which is identical to what Giambi had, and Giambi went on the DL for two months and it cleared up. I do not understand why Jays fans do not understand that.

Glaus has played all year without any complaints about the injury and playing in obvious pain and still producing.

Reality is, would we have been better if he went out for two or three months or are we better that he played. I believe we’re better that he played.

The response from some unknowledgable Jays fans is to trade him-but no one ever offers a trade scenario or what we’d get in return. It’s not easy to find someone to replace Glaus’s numbers at the same cost we pay him. In addition, Glaus has proven himself in playoff scenarios-that is worth a ton. If you want to dump him, be specific about who will replace him and at what cost.

When you do that analysis, you’ll recognize he’s tremendous value and likely not replaceable at the same money.

And everything else is simply rhetoric from people who know no better.

hem.gold

You should, as a good red sox fan go back to their site-at the moment they’re loosing. lol

Hey Indigo

Come on girl, Garry and I miss you. Where ar you?

Garry

Hey, who you trade Johnson and Lind for? I’d like Crawford-what do you think?

Craford would be a great asset to this team but it would take lind mcgowan and two top prospects I for one would make the trade,Reason not only is he a 5 tool player he is a jays killer,N o better place for him to play then here.
If EGO man reads this blog Crawford is now out of the question because he never thought of it first.

Yes I agree that glaus and thomas are now showing us what they are made of but to little to late.

14 straight years no oct.You say you still stand behind JP how can you when Toronto has wasted 7 years with him all Toronto is to him is a paycheck and power trip what I cant belive is Rogers cant see this.

There is no way the D-Rays take Johnson and Lind for Crawford. ZERO CHANCE.

Hang on to lind trade johnson if you can if we have to keep glaus then explore the free agent market for a shortstop with power and speed.

About glaus he also has a bone chip floating in his heel witch they can’t operate on thats the big problem with him it cant be fixed time to put him down lol.

Bosox calm down if you no so much who would they take for crawford and try to be smart about it, gsumner was just throwing something out there to get us talking and it looks like it worked.

indigo we need someone with brains to speak up please do.

Harry done with your homework come on down.

Garry

That is the same issue Giambi dealt with-there’s no difference-Glaus with rest should be fine.

Now tell me why Tampa wouldn’t do the trade. Crawford is about to go to 8 mill in salary-which they adhor paying and about double from Johnson and Lind.

Johnson and Crawford are almost identical in stats, with the exception of more steals by Crawford. And we through in Lind, an extremely good hitter at major league minimum salary.

Why wouldn’t they do the deal?

Oh, I know why, because Boxsox and Robert says they won’t. lol

Amazing how these guys keep saying no, but come up with no alternatives.

Hilarious!!!

So where’s our girl Indigo?

Bsox

Hey I hear Boston are going to trade Drew, pick up all his salary and not ask anything in return. Wow. I guess it must be nice to just throw away 75 mill. like that huh?

hey Bosox, I just watched your lad Clay. Good thing he got a no no now, cause it ain’t happening again.

Mediocre stuff. Second time though the league and he will get pounded into submission.

gsumner

1) no one needs to trade for 2 outfielders at onece. I can’t remember the last time I saw 2 outfielders packaged together in a trade.

2) As has been pointed out Crawford is a franchise player. Tampa will never trade him for less than 1 top level young pitcher and an additional 2nd teir young pitcher.

Tampa has TOO MANY outfielders as is is. Young, Baldelli, Upton, Gomes, Crawford. They aren’t going to trade for more.

3) I allready said I wouldn’t trade Johnson, I’d keep him for a platoon situation (a situation he’s shown he is capable of thriving in)

4) If we could package Lind and a pitcher for a short stop better than Johnny Mac (even while considering what he contributes on defence) than I’d consider it however Lind had a tough time in the majors earlier this year when Johnson first went down so his value might be low right now.

4) On Glaus, I wouldn’t trade him. Hopefully he’s healthier next year (plantar faciitis is supposed to heal with rest – So I’ve heard in the case of several baskettball players who have it).

At this point his value is zero anyway, and we wouldn’t be able to replace his production either.

gsumner:

Who ever said I was a Red Sox fan?

I realize you often don’t like when people disagree with you, but I’m just speaking my mind. In my opinion, a Lind/Johnson for Crawford trade is a pipe dream. I wish it could happen, because Crawford’s one of my favourite players to watch, but I can’t see Tampa wanting an unproven rookie and a guy who’s coming off a season of injuries for a five tool player like Crawford. You seem to think he’s only a base stealer, but this is a guy who could potentially be a 25HR, 90RBI, .300, 40SB per year kind of guy, while also providing Gold Glove defense.

As far as trading Glaus goes, that ship has sailed. With his injury problems and hefty contract, the Jays can definitely not trade him for much of anything any more. Unless the Jays want to eat up TONS of salary, they’re stuck with him. I was hoping he’d be traded when both L.A. teams were calling before the All Star Break. Unfortunately, it didn’t happen.

When it comes right down to it, unless they’re willing to give up some pitching depth (which I think is a mistake), I don’t think the Jays have much of anything as far as trade bait goes. Too many of their position players are coming off sub par seasons, injuries, and have hefty contracts that would scare a lot of teams away.

I’m sure gsumner won’t like this comment because it doesn’t line up with his viewpoint, but I’m just giving my opinion.

I hope everyone has a great night!

robert.
Gnomes is a DH and a poor one at that and Baldalli is on the DL most of the time Young is average,on the other hand Lind has a big bat any GM out there can see that.

Put up lind and Litsch and the trade will be done overnight.

The Jays have to look to the free agent for a class shortstop with all the tools but they must keep Jhonny Mac as a utilty infielder.

As for Glaus JP wont trade him anyway so thats now a dead isue.

thegarry:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m thinking the free agent SS market is looking pretty slim. I’m just curious, but do you know who’s available?

garry:

For the sake of debate, if the situation was reversed, would you be happy if the Jays traded Rios for Lind and Litsch?

hemgold.
I read all of your coments and I think you get upset when somebody disagrees with you reread your own post.

I wonder could gsumner have made a mistake when he said hemgold was a red s-u-x-fan lets not ask him lets just jump down his throat.

Zaun is a must to trade he has no arm and there running against him more and more It makes me mad when I see guys who steal 2 or 3 bases a year steal of him with no efort

Young has HUGE potential, I agree Lind will have an average bat for a left-fielder
290 avg 30HR’s (that’s expected production for a LF)but Lind is not going to be as good as Young (atleast according to all the scouting reports I’ve read).

Litsch is a 4th starter at best according to Keith Law of ESPN.com (former Jays front office guy), come to think of it I think he said that untill this year he thought Litsch would be a 5th starter. I’ll admit he underestimated Marcum calling him a 4/5 guy and I think he now has revisewd that to a #3 guy.

Gomes in my opinion may have been a steroid user (I cant explain his regression any other way)

My point stands though, all the columnists I read and all the talking heads on US national sports TV say the D-Rays have too many outfielders, and need to be trading someone for pitching not another outfielder and a little pitching.

Agree on your J Mac and Glaus points. However as we’ve discussed before the only FA SS worth having is Eckstien, so a trade may be neccessary if JP want’s to upgrade over JMac.

I honestly think JP is serious that he’s going to bring back the same team next year, so really there is no point in getting all worked up about this.

I heard Dan Shulman on the Fan590 today, he said last year Detroit had 1! significant injury and everything in terms of players having career or near career years went the Tigers way.

He said (and I agree obviously) that the Jays, with their current roster, would need the same luck in terms of health and production.

He knows what he’s talking about, both in general and especcially in comparission to all of our knowledge put together.

All right. I’m going to come clean with you lovely blogging folks. Here goes:

Not only am I Red Sox fan, but I’m actually Jason Varitek’s secret lover. My plan is to make 10 bazillion babies with him so we can field an entire future team of Red Sox.

It’s going to be beautiful!

As for the free agent market no I don’t,I belive I said look to the free agent market.

Rios and Crawford not a fair question two different teams and payrolls their entire makeup is different.

ah sorry, had a brain cramp

He said (and I agree obviously) that the Jays, with their current roster, would need the same luck in terms of health and production

. . .

to make the playoffs.

If the DRays have any intention of competing they wont trade Crawford because he’s due to make a wopping 5.25Mil next year and 8mil the year after.

If he was a FA he’d get atleast 15 mil a year.

Hey guys hemgolds a girl she must be if she can make babies,Now we have two girls on this blog.

When I sleep, though, I wear Red Sox pajamas with a Blue Jay cap.

Do you guys think that’s weird?

Garry:

Before you make assumptions about my gender and making babies, I think you should watch this movie:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110216/

For the record, I called that.

As soon as I read your comment, I knew what movie you were linking to.

Robert:

When I watch that movie, it’s like looking in a mirror!

I guess I’m just to old and out of it if your trying to say your *** big deal so are a lot of people both genders and I could care less If I’m still out in left field leave me there.

But back to baseball and stuff, do you folks really think JP’s going to do much over the off season? He keeps on saying he’s very happy with this team as it is and that he wants to see what they can do when there aren’t so many injuries. In many ways, I agree that this team deserves another shot, but I really wish they had a better option batting lead off. I love Johnson, but he seems a little broken.

It would also be nice to have another option at short and behind the plate, but the free agent cupboard seems a little bare. And if JP’s happy with the team “as is”, there seems like little chance of a trade. Maybe he can give up someone in the bullpen? But I’m pretty sure you can’t get a starting catcher for Jason Frasor….

Just throwing some ideas out there. And I’m sorry if I came off as hostile in an earlier post. Must be all the vodka I’m drinking. Can we hug and be friends again?

I never hugged a *** guy before so here goes HUG.

And I know there are kids on this blog, so for the record, I’m not condoning drinking with that drinking comment. Booze is bad news.

And, Garry, don’t worry about being in left field. I’m just joking around, buddy. Don’t sweat it! And besides, you’ve got plenty of company in the Jays’ left field — they’ve got Stairs, Johnson, and Lind out there….

I agree hem.gold.

As I said I think Riccardi is serious when he says what we see now is basically what we’ll see in 2008.

Aw, thanks Garry….I appreciate it!

But seriously, what are the Jays going to do with that glut of left fielders? I guess sticking with a platoon of Stairs and Johnson isn’t a bad idea, and if one of them breaks down, there’s always Lind waiting in AAA….

hemgold we all needed a break from the game and I think you found a way to break the ice thanks and goodnight.

Good on ya, Garry!

Have a wonderful night!

Robert:

So what’s your opinion of JP? Is he just stubborn or is he onto something with this team?

Both.

I mean the team is clearly better than they’ve showed this year, but I agree with Shulman (see my earlier post) that EVERYTHING would have to go right in order for this team to make the playoffs.

If you look at the elite teams: Boston, New York, Anaheim, the other New York (Mets), they’ve all had some injuries and players struggle.

Boston had Schilling out right now Manny is out, Papi has been hurt all year.

NY Giambi, Damon, Mussina, Proctor, now Clemens.

Anaheim has been without Bartolo Colon like all year, Shea Hillenbrand was a disaster.

The Mets have been without Pedro, King Carlos has struggled to recover from surgeries he had last off season, David Wright also struggled early.

And that was FAR from a complete list of all the injuries and struggles those teams have had.

The point is despite injuries and unexpected poor play the elite teams (really elite organizations – Ownership, management, coaching, players)

persivere through all that and win inspite of all the obstacles.

The Jays have a decent team.

The definition of average really considering they’ll probobly finish the season within 5 games of .500.

In my opinion they aren’t an elite team because they aren’t an elite organization.

I don’t believe ownership knows (or carers to know) anything about baseball. Rogers is happy because the team nolonger looses money and provides the crosspromotion advertising oppourtunities most corporations can only dream about. (as a coincidental side note, I start a new job in accounting for Rogers Wireless on monday)

Godfrey I believe (as does Bob McCown Fan590 – which makes me hurl) has “tied his wagon” to JP, he’ll never fire him. And It’ll probobly cost him his job too eventually.

JP is cocky which is immediatly off-putting.

However I think he’s starting to mature as a GM (selecting High-schoolers in the draft) and think if we had the owners that the 4 elite teams I mentioned have, JP’d be better. But I think it’ll take new management before ownership gives a GM carte blance, both in authority and in spending.

Gibbons. sigh.

Torre, Francona, Socia (sp?), Randolph, Gibbons.

Which of the following doesn’t belong?

Nuff said.

And on that note, nuff said.

I don’t know if it’s so much a case of JP being stubborn as it is that it’s hard to get any value trading away a guy who’s hurt or just had the worst year of his career, and a few Jays have no-trade clauses to boot. If you’re going to eat a bunch of someone’s salary to move him somewhere, the guy you’re replacing him with has to be a really sweet deal.

Well, well, I guess the Johnson/Lind trade fro Crwford did the trick and got guys posting here gain.

Great.

Now how about Halliday for Santana?

I don’t know wether to be relieved that you’re not quite as stupid as I thought you were when I went to bed last night or pissed off that I wasted my time arguing with you.

well one things for sure Robert-you’ll never win a prize for how to win friends and influence people. lol

On the other hand it did get a lot of people posting on the board-which was the intention. And arguments are good once in a while as long as no one takes anything personal-and I sure don’t.

Now if we can get Harry and Indigo back we’re all set.

gsumner = gosh darn cute

Halliday is the nucleus of this team not Wells or anybody else trade him and I follow him gsunmer Grrrrr.

I just read that they are going to make wolfe a starter he has 5 pitches and the build and composure to be a starter not bad since he was an after thought in the koski trade,It looks like we may come out on top after all,Watch JP try to grab all the glory.

robertlee good luck on your new job when your having coffee with ted put a bug in his ear to make some changes lol.

hem

You’re frightening me. lol

Garry

Well Santana is a great lefty-maybe the best out there.

Hey, making Wolfe a starter is likely a good idea, particulary if we trade Halliday for Santans. lol

Hey Robert when you’re having coffee at Rogers, tell them to dump Bob McGowan at 590, the guys has no knowledge of baseball, and makes me puke every time I see him.

Oh, gsumner — I just think it’s adorable that you’re such a blogging “puppet-master”.

I LOVE IT!

Hem

Now you’re really scaring me; I hope it’s the Vodka. lol

Wolfe’s a great example of someone who just came out of nowhere and has pitched extremely well. If he can keep it up next year, he’ll be one of those great stories of a guy that most scouts dismissed but he made it anyway.

Good stuff.

And they just signed him to a 5 year $500,000 per year deal.

gsumner:

Can we hug and be friends, too? I might even give you a sip of that “vodka”….

Speaking of the Fan, what do you folks think of Wilner?

500K per year for 5 years-I like that deal

hem-we can be friends without hugging. lol

Is Wilner the guy with the beard that keeps saying yes to everything McGowan says?

Wilner’s a company man.

gsumner, I was refering to Bob McCowan.

No gsumner that’s Stephen Brunt of the Globe and Mail.

Wilner is the guy on the Fan pre and post game shows.

oh I thought it was Wolfe.

500k a year for that clown mcgowan-stupidity

gsumner: It’s even cuter that you’re so scared of hugs….

Wilner does the post-game radio show on 590. He takes calls from fans and gives analysis of the game. I’m not sure if he’s ever shown on TV. I try to avoid Sportsnet when they’re not actually showing the game.

The thing I like about Wilner is that he takes no guff from anyone. He really rips into fans who call up saying ridiculous stuff like “let’s trade Zaun and McDonald for Pudge Rodriguez.”

With that said, he can be pretty abrasive at times…

right Mike Wilner

I’m ok with him-of course he’ll never say anything negative about the Jays, but I think that goes with the territory. He certainly is better than Jamie Campbell who’s a complete waste of time.

I wish one of the networks would bring back Rod Black-he was good-particulary on baseball

Stephen Brunt is the biggest brown noser I’ve ever seen on TV. I’m sure he licks McGowan’s shoes-the two of them together are pathetic.

I like it when he rips stupid fans.

But I think he’ drinking Riccardi’s kool-aid.

Jamie Campbell isn’t that bad. The problem is that he’s just such a boy scout — he doesn’t want to step on anyone’s toes, he tends to repeat himself, and his jokes are some of the worst I’ve ever heard.

All in all, none of the Blue Jay broadcast guys are particularly good. They’re all pretty boring and cheesy. And not to step on gsumner’s cute little toes, but I’d lump Rod Black into those categories, too.

Wilner does seem to have a ridiculous amount of faith in the current Jays’ roster. I dunno, I don’t mind cheerleaders as long as they’ve got some edge to them….

WILNER is a DOLT if you call his show he will try to make you look like an idiot you are never right he is never wrong,At nite time they put allan jerry and wilner to bed in a box and open it every game time they all sound the same they all look the same,Example oh look troy missed the ball but thats okay a blade of grass wasn’t groomed just right so it wasn’t his fault oh yes jerry even though the blade of grass was in left field he saw it out of the corner of his eye oh we just love each other now where is hemgold time for a group hug ..hug..hug..

Garry’s really into the hugging. That’s pretty fantastic!

D A M N — looks like the Jays should have traded him when they had the chance.

That’s not good for anyone….

I do belive I was not in that hug,
All the rest of the posters must be wondering what is going on well I think our season is comeing to an end so we are just letting off a little steam feel free to chime in hug lol

PUT YOURSELF in his shoes this man was under a lot of pressure,we have never had to face what he has,I for one will not boo him,
What will the team do who knows but you can be sure JP will lie to us.

I guess the best bet is to wait for jordans posting tonight he will have some news for us.how sad.

Why did everybody clam up with the news about glaus you would think it would give us something to talk about.

I don’t really know what to say.

I think he’ll get suspended.

You break the rules you pay the price.

I think this is indicitive of the steroid culture in baseball at the time that guys would so brazenly (and in hind sight stupidly) order stuff off the internet and have it shipped to them.

Did they not think about the paper trail?

I think Barry Bonds is ****, but atleast he was inteligent enough to do it all through someone he could trust. Greg Anderson, his trainer, has spent what like 2? years in jail because he refuses to testify about Barry.

for the recod is typed s c u m

I don’t know why that’s treated like an expletive.

I’m sure there will be plenty of players exposed in the future. Just wait until they can test for HGH… It wouldn’t surprise me if 40% of players are using it.

My feelings… Who cares what happened in 03 we are now in 07. If they fail a drug test they get suspended but not because they are found out to have purchased drugs years ago.

I think I’ll wait to hear all 3 sides to the story before I make a decision.

There’s a lot of alleging and no prove. All the allegations are from a single source-not dual or multiple confirmations.

There’s no drug test, just allegations from a single source. Hey, there been allegations on A-Rod too.

If I issued a press release that stated Deiter was taking steroids 3-4 years ago and some writer printed it, doesn’t mean it’s true.

I think it’s nieve to say “no proof”.

SI has been on top of this since February, and they’re obviously a very credible publication.

I guess my other big question is, if there was a raid on the facility back in February as stated, were any charges laid. If they were, why hasn’t MLB investigated-its now 7 months later. Why havent any charges been laid?

And there have been no ligitimate allegations against A-Rod.

Jose Canseco gave a wink wink statement about him.

This is a case of paper trail coming back to haunt guys.

robert-I’m sure you’ve never dealt with the press or you wouldn’t make that statement.

You still, innocently believe anything in SI and other publications is absolutely true.

From what I’ve read on SI, authorities are still going through tons of files and computers for info and evidence.

And the cops never go after illegal drug users. They only bother going after dealers/suppliers/growers/makers.

I beleive that if the WWE (the freaking WWE!!) suspends wrestlers because of what SI says, than SI’s evidence surrounding this Signature Pharmacy case must be highly credible.

Are you actually suggesting their wrong here?

I take everything with a grain of salt but I don’t assume I’m being lied to.

I don’t want to live my life in that kind of paranoia.

From what I can understand, the prohibition did not start until MLB & the Players union renegotiated in offseason 2004. So Glaus is probably not going to get suspended for something that was not even an infraction when he did it.

That’s proof enough in todays world. Guilty until proven otherwise.

Oh for God’s sake inncoent till proven guilty applies to COURTS.

It doesn’t apply to employers dicipline of their employees.

See the NFL suspending players before there’s even a trial.

Glad to see some of you are back but lets not make this our personal battle ground.
I know we all want to say,Say it aint so troy but thats a myth I can’t see anyone printing something with that much weight if it wasn’t true the fallout would be devastating to the writer and his co.

matty39 is right this is 07 troy is a blue jay lets stand behind him look at the way SF stood behind barry bonds.[so did I]

Just heard about Glaus, they had an interview on the fan with the guy who reported it, and he suggested that Glaus had likely used it to recover from an injury quicker, and not neccassarily to add muscle mass. Make of that what you will, but it does make sense (he had a shoulder injury at the time i believe).

To hem.gold referring to Jamie Campbell as “cheesy” I couldn’t have chosen a better word to describe him. I’ve noticed that even his colour commentator(s) don’t laugh often when he tries to make a joke. Personally I don’t like him, Rance Mulliniks or Rod Black. I miss Dan Shulman and Buck Martiniz, even Pat Tabler (not on often enough).

Sam Consentino wasn’t too bad (I thought)

I think Mike Wilner is good (listen to him regularly) and enjoy listening to his thoughts/analysis. One thing he does do a lot that gets annoying is the fact that he points out peoples grammar problems. Not everyone can be as educated as him, and he has to understand that a lot of ppl in the city are likely immigrants (so long as he understands what a person is trying to say that’s all that should matter) I don’t mind when he rips ppl for making ridiculous trade suggestions though.

As for J.P. I believe he should get one and only one more season to see what he can do. If the team doesn’t make the playoffs next year then i’ll want him fired, regardless of injuries or a player(s) under-achieving year.

I’d like to get something 100% what do ppl mean when a baseball is juiced? is it just that it’s bigger?

enigma I think it means that it is wound tighter.

Glad to see glaus in the lineup.

Check out pena cut last year hero this year????.

Did thomas grow that big on t-bones????

Anyone else watching the game notice they’re already chanting “steroids” when Glaus is up to bat?

I believe a baseball can also be juiced by storing them in climate controlled rooms. Adjusting both the temperature and the humidity.

They do that in Colorado to adjust the balls to compensate for the thin air.

Teams aren’t supposed to be able to do that anymore as the league instituted rules requiring teams to store them at specific league regulated temperatures and humitity %.

I’d also like to point out that if you google for a Frank Thomas rookie card, he was a giant 17 years ago.

Here’s a link, just click on it. The back of the card which is right beside the picture says that he was 6’5″ 245lbs at 22 years old.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://shop.mlb.com/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-1477173dt.jpg&imgrefurl=http://shop.mlb.com/sm-1990-topps-frank-thomas-rookie-card–pi-1792194.html&h=500&w=500&sz=87&hl=en&start=8&um=1&tbnid=o09iMjPFCwP6uM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3DFrank%2BThomas%2Brookie%2Bcard%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us%26sa%3DN

I believe he’s now 275lbs, but a 30lbs gain has allways been a typical physical maturation. Do you weigh the same now as when you were 22?

Frank is a freak of nature, always has been. And he’s also been quite beligerant this year discussing Barry Bonds and others.

I for one give guys the beifit of the doubt untill there is real evidence presented about them. One of the things mentioned at the time of the Congressional hearing that Thomas was originally asked to participate in is that there’s never been an suspicion about him.

I’d also like to point out that I really can’t spell.

Good for thomas.

Wells caught off base can be excused these players must have their teamate on their minds.

I was at 220 when I was 22 no fat now I am at 320 at 62 all fat.lol.

Great outing from McGowan. 8 innings, 12 K’s and only two runs.

The kid just keeps getting better and better each time out. Can’t wait to see the numbers he puts up next year.

yes McGowan was a star tonight.Frasor gets a chance to pitch thats good.we win thats good.we can and will sweep the rays and the next 3 teams this glaus thing will pull this team together.

Garry

The thing to remember is everyone is innocent until proven guilty. All that’s been said about Glaus to date is inuendo and unsubstaniated facts.

Dont’t get carried aways with something stated in the rag SI-they state anything to sell magazines-not everything they state is true.

Wait until the facts are known before you make a judgement.

Hey, way to go Gumbo-clean inning 12 pitches-maybe getting back in Abner’s favor.

As I said before innocent until proven guilty is for the courts.

Here’s a fact; he hasn’t denied it yet.

At this rate we do have to stop calling Frasor Waldo though, he’s being used too much to deserve the moniker.

I think if you read my comments I’m on glauses side all my life I have belived you are inocent until proven guilty and in troys case even if he used them they were under the wire so it means nothing as far as i’m concernd.now i think i’m going to have a VODKA.

Bonds claims innocence yet Greg Anderson sits in a prison cell this very day because he would not testify about Bonds . If Bonds is innocent why would Anderson not say so. The article I read said the drugs sent to the address connected to Glaus were obtained legally . The MLB article also claims they were prescribed and they were not listed until 2005.
I think it wise that Glaus keeps quiet until he looks at all the legal ramifications. I am sure there will be more names to come

Firstly i have no comment on glaus cause i don’t know what happens now (been a baseball fan for a short time)

i posted before but seems like my post isn’t there…weird

About crawford trade i would probably trade a huge package get rid of players we don’t need and that tampa might need

Tampa gets:

litsch

tallet

lind

a prospect we might not need like another pitcher (josh banks perhaps) or so (remember we got tons of pitchers coming up too so it’s okay if we give up 1)

OR CHACIN

Jays get:

Crawford

and maybe a horrible prospect

wat do you guys think? but instead of trading for crawford i would prefer to trade for shortstop. Put stairs and johnson in platoon situitation

Use lind and litsch or chacin to get a good shortstop. Do you think we might be able to get edgar rentaria or someone like that?

oh and don’t trade glaus or thomas

think about this:

thomas never played for a team in the AL East. He’s played against many teams in Al central and 1 year in West

Perhaps he is only getting used to the pitchers in East for the first half. Now that he has gotten used to them he has started to hit them…possible i think so.

And stat guys could you tell me if thomas has hit better this season against AL central/west than he has against AL east pitchers? if there is a stat like this then …

Robert

Well, Abner’s comments sort of sum up exactly how he goes through each game: “I couldn’t care less.”

I don’t know what the reporters expected to get out of Wells or Abner though. Godrey had already issued an official response: “”The accusations made today in the media … are simply accusations,” Godfrey said. “I am in no position to make comment on information that is attributed to an unnamed source.” which I think was the appropriate one.

I’m sure the reporters realized Wells wasn’t going to say anything one way or the other-why would he.

Indigo

Nice to see you posting again; just a point of clarification, the article was from SI not MLB.

Don’t be a stranger!

gsumner,
I read the article in SI but it never says the drugs were obtained legally only that they came from an illegal website. The article on the MLB site claims the drugs were obtained legally by both Glaus and Ankeil. My point was SI either didn’t give all the facts or didn’t have them. This is from the MLB artcile “Neither player procured the drugs illegally or have been charged with any crime. It is legal in the U.S. to obtain HGH and a number of anabolic steroids with a prescription.”

I personally think its in Glaus best interest to be silent until he looks at the legal aspects. MLB may wish to speak to him and if he took them to help with an injury not to enhance muscle mass then be honest. Not like either of these two took them over an extended period of time as performance enhancing drugs.

I am always around , but some of us have to work …lol….Have a great day all and catch you later …take care

Indigo

Thank you for your post; it confirms exactly what I said about press articles. The MLB article was written off of the SI article and yet points out subtle different points.

That’s exactly why I said there’s likely multiple sides to the story.

So before Glaus or anyone else is proven guilty of anything, we have to know the facts. All we’ve got at the moment are unsubstantiated stories from an unknown source.

Let’s get the facts first and then make a judgement.

A number of years ago, I happened to be in London England, the morning the Americans bombed Gaddafi. As it happened, I flew that same day to New York and then to Toronto so I saw multiple broadcasts on the same subject in 3 different countries in the same day.

So help me, you’d have never known it was the same event. The press put different spins on things all the time.

The magazine press are the worst, since they’re also the ones under the most pressure for survival and need to write spectaculars to get people buying the magazines. Radio is second and tv 3rd.

I have had my own experiences with the press that confirmed exactly what I stated above. So over the years, I’ve developed my own guideline which is: believe 25% of what you read,50% of what you see hear on radio and 75% of what you see and hear on TV.

Anyone believing magazine writers, without understanding their motives is either really naive or stupid. Take everything they write with a large grain of salt.

The diference between the articles is this:

It isn’t illegal to get HGH or some steroids if you have a prescription.

Which means neither Glaus or Ankeil broke the law.

It IS illegal for the doctor to write a prescription without ever having met the patient, and it is also illegal to prescribe medications for medically unneccessary reasons.

Unneccessary reasons would be:

- performance enhancement

- healing of an injury that HGH and steroids are NOT accepted treatments for.

Steroids are an accepted treatment for some immune system stuff and HGH is allowed for Dwarfism and conditions like that.

The issue isn’t that Glaus broke the law (if the allegations are true – the doctor broke the law for him), it’s that he used performance enhancing drugs.

To clarify the differnce in the stories,

MLB.com is reporting that the drugs were obtained legally (on the players end).

SI is reporting that it’s an illegal transaction (on the doctors end).

I understand the differences. I was pointing out the fact that stories have discrepancies. One dwells on the fact of it being an illegal internet site that the drugs were ordered from but fails to mention those players involved did not order the drugs themselves from that site but infact they were ordered for them through a clinic. It is kind of hard to prove if they took the drugs since enough time has passed that the drugs will no longer be in their system. They may prove they ordered them but not that they took them so hard to prove they did anything illegal. The whole drug thing is sad but a reality not only in baseball but so many sports. Its probably too late to do anything about previous users, they need to concentrate on the present and future. Lets hope they can clean it up but I doubt it . Until they can test for HGH , there will be players who choose to use it .

i got a list of all the guys in free agency here: so feel free to post if you think of any trade scenarios. I also don’t think that we need pitchers so i didn’t put them. and some who have been signed/offerend a contract is right beside them

Catchers

Brad Ausmus (39)

Michael Barrett (31)

Ramon Castro (32)

Jason Kendall (34)

Paul Lo Duca (36)

Jorge Posada (36)

Jose Molina (33)

Ivan Rodriguez (36) – $13MM club option for ’08

Yorvit Torrealba (30)

First basemen

Sean Casey (34)

Tony Clark (36)

Adam Dunn (28) – $13MM club option for ’08

Darin Erstad (34) – $3.5MM club option for ’08

Scott Hatteberg (38) – $1.85MM club option for ’08

Ryan Klesko (37)

Mike Lamb (33)

Doug Mientkiewicz (34)

Second basemen

Luis Castillo (32)

Damion Easley (38)

Marcus Giles (30) – $4MM club option for ’08

Tadahito Iguchi (33)

Mark Loretta (37)

Kaz Matsui (32)

Jose Valentin (38)

Shortstops

David Eckstein (33)

Cesar Izturis (28) – $5.45MM club option for ’08

Juan Uribe (29) – $5MM club option for ’08

Omar Vizquel (41)

Third basemen

Pedro Feliz (33)

Mike Lamb (32)

Mike Lowell (34)

Alex Rodriguez (32) – Has ability to opt out of contract after season

Left fielders

Moises Alou (42) – $7.5MM club option for ’08

Barry Bonds (43)

Milton Bradley (30)

Adam Dunn (28) – $13MM club option for ’08; becomes free agent after season if traded

Cliff Floyd (35) – mutual option for ’08

Luis Gonzalez (40)

Geoff Jenkins (33) – $9MM club option for ’08

Reggie Sanders (40)

Shannon Stewart (34)

Brad Wilkerson (31)

Center fielders

Milton Bradley (30)

Mike Cameron (35)

Darin Erstad (34) – $3.5MM club option for ’08

Torii Hunter (32)

Andruw Jones (31)

Kenny Lofton (41)

Corey Patterson (28)

Aaron Rowand (30)

Right fielders

Bobby Abreu (34) – $16MM club option for ’08

Milton Bradley (30)

Kosuke Fukudome (31)

Shawn Green (35) – $10MM club option for ’08

Jose Guillen (32) – $9MM club option for ’08

Geoff Jenkins (33) – $9MM club option for ’08

Trot Nixon (34)

Reggie Sanders (40)

DHs

Barry Bonds (43)

Mike Piazza (39)

Sammy Sosa (39)

Mike Sweeney (34)

gsumner:

You believe 75% of what you see on TV? That, my friend, is much, much scarier than hugging….

In my humble opinion, TV news is the most sensationalist and likely to twist a story to fit short attention spans. Not that I’m defending radio or magazines, but you’ve got to take TV newscasters with a grain of salt. They might not be selling magazines, but they are fighting for ratings….

HarryPotter:

Great list!

hem

I didn’t include CNN in that. But I see you agree, you can’t really belive any of them

ANY TEAM that plays like this against a bottom feeder will not only not get there this year but they will not get there next year.
JP is not able to put a sandwich together far less a good team.

Wells 7 years what a mistake I thought Toronto learned a lesson with Delgado.

Too d-am much money for 1 player,now that wells has the money you will see how lazy he really is I for one don’t like him and wish they would trade him mark my words he will hurt this franchise in the long run.

Thomas nothing but a big slug looks like a retard on the bases.

Johnson forgot how to play never will be able to play a full year.

Overbay another player whos getting a free check.

Zaun why and the free agent market will be no help for catchers[thanks harry].

Eckstein is not much better than JM.

Glaus is a cripple and just because giambi heald does not mean glaus will.

And finaly in all the years I have watched baseball I have never seen all the pitchers especially rookies come back the next year and have a good year so this team needs another good starter.

I know I said finaly but we are stuck with this same team for 2 more years.

Now that I’m through feeling sorry for myself I just read where Burnett is 4-1-192 ERA,since comeing of the DL now thats the guy the Jays paid for.

gsumner good on you for standing up for him I wanted to see him gone.

Who thinks AJ opts out next year especially if he is pitchen like this or will he be like the Doc since he hangs around him a lot.

Garry

I see you vented a bit. Two tough losses; Ace’s start in particular was tremendous and

Da Kid was ok today-but the offense stayed in Boston.

If you watched Aj pitch, he’s starting to change speeds a lot, even throwing a changeup. He’s not just dialing it up to 98 and flinging it. He threw fastballs with good movement from 91 to 98 and then tossed in a changeup at 88. That and his curve make him **** near unhittable. I also think it’ll save wear and tear on his arm and keep him in games longer.

I think he’s learnt that from Doc and Bulldog(changeup) and I think we’ll see him grow each time he goes out there. That being said, the starter’s Doc, Chops, Ace and the Bulldog, if all healthy, should be great for us next year. There will be a fight for the 5th position between Da Kid, Da Slurper (lol) and and I guess Da Wolfman.

Personally, I hope Da Slurper makes it back, I seem to recall him always pitching well against Boston and NY, but any of the 3 are quite acceptable for a 5th starter.

I’d bet Ace doesn’t opt out-I think he enjoys it here and believes these guys can win. I also think he enjoys being around the good Dr. and realizes he’s becoming a better pitcher by being here.

By the way, we’re edging closer to Boston on year ERA, with Boston being at 3.82 and our guys at 3.96; San Diego are still first at 3.66. However, post All-Star break we’re number one in baseball at 3.34, Cleveland 2nd at 3.69 and Boston 3rd at 3.93. Just shows why Cleveland are winning-hopefully that’s what happens to us next year.

The other stat I found interesting is team era at home is 3.63 for the year and second only to San Diego, whereas our away ERA is 4.29 putting us in 10th place. I wonder why-any ideas?

When they go on the road gibbons probley has no rules or they just dont follow them party party.

Theron Flury married my cousin Shanon Griffin the reason they broke up was because of the road trips party party, I have a niece who is married to an ex ottawa rough rider [CFL] he said it was always a party they did what they wanted to,If you dont have rules and sombody to enfores them what kind of shape are they in at game time I’m not saying it happens every time but maybe to many.

And you can bet gibbons is right with them just look at the shape he is in,He has to wear a smock to hide the dunlop disease.

opps probably

Did I miss something no one has posted since last night.
Maybe we can’t make the post season but we are still Blue Jay fans there must be something we can talk about.

If Troy Glaus is the problem lets talk about it.

Hey how about testing A-Rod this guys to good to be true.

If I was a ball player and the only way I was going to make the bigs was to use roids so be it 10 mil a year just call me roid man with the big bucks and if I got caught down the road a fishing I would go and I would be rich ahhh ha ha ha.

That was the best double play I have ever seen.

Now that Gluas is hurt I think it would be wise for him to have surgery on his plantar fasciitis. They may as well shut him down for the rest of the season. It’ll also help him avoid the crowd booing him for the rest of the season (if that happens) Not that it should matter but it would be extra incentive for him.

Johnny Mac might be going through the same fatique problems that happened last year, he bothced a couple of plays that he normally makes with ease.

Garry

Actually Canseco has said he will expose A-Rod in his next book so stay tuned.

enigma

The Doctors have said surgury isn’t an option for Glaus-the only option is rest-but maybe its wise to shut him down for the season

How many times do we have to put up with dumb decisions from Abner. He keeps costing us game after game after game.

Halliday should NEVER have been sent out for the 9th. Ends up with 123 pitches.

I don’t understand this idiot. It doesn’t matter if Halliday finishes the game or not-

WHAT MATTERS ABNER IS WHETHER WE WIN OR LOSE.

Your right great time to shut Troy down they may have planned to do that anyway.
If he comes back next year with no pain he will be the player we paid for.

If Abner keeps abusing our starters like he is, it won’t matter cause they will all be injured next year.

Come on JP fire this idiot-or start looking to sign more pitchers cause hes going to blow them all.

All abner thinks about is personal records let doc throw another complete game who cares if it cost us the game Abner is an a-ss kisser.

no Abner’s an idiot-Doc couldn’t care less about personal records-he wants to win.

He didn’t sign a below market contract to stay here to set personal records-he did it to allow the team to have more budget to sign others in order to WIN.

Winning is what Halliday is about-too bad that stupid, retarted idiot mnager Abner doesn’t think the same way.

That’s it for me. I am done with this team until JP puts a manager in there that knows what the **** he’s doing and doesn’t risk our franchise player or any of our other pitchers.

I did not say Halliday was after the record Abner was for the doc.

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